When will we ever learn?

Having shot the European Fitasc Sporting at Konopiste and the Dutch Fitasc Grand Prix this year why are we not shooting the same type of targets to select our teams for International events? :fie:

The targets at our selection shoots consists of 50 yard loopers,rabbits,teal,midis etc., but at these competitions there would be no more than 2 or 3 on a 25 bird parcour :slow:

The majority of these shoots are won by killing all of the "bread & butter" targets and most of the more difficult ones :girlcrazy:

We are training our teams on targets that are only shot in the U.K.  why? ilot:    

Take up skeet then, targets are the same wherever you go...

I like FITASC the way 'we' shoot it, I haven't shot on the continent, so can't comment, but I'd hate to think 'we' would change for the sake of it, nothing wrong with a 50yd looper, teal or midi...so long as they are presented correctly...

:fie:  Darkside, I think you are missing the point! I am talking about Selection shoots to pick our teams to shoot abroad at Championships, not monthly fitasc shoots at our local grounds.  we have to shoot the type of targets that will br presented at said Championships! :comando:

Cyril here we go again , if people can shoot they can shoot , the teams obviously can shoot as they have come through a selection process of probably 700 target combinations using around 300 different traps , so from what I hear we might aswell run a sel shoot on the ot ranges at southern counties !!!!!

The big problem and more to the point is a lot of shooters for some reason want to shoot big scores , alien to me but true , and as long as there are shooters in the uk that want to shoot the longer targets you suggest I ain't changing , I still say our Grand Prix this summer was one of the greats despite high winds and lower scores

I think we are too much down the Europe route in other ways in life and clay target presentations in my life stay as me and my customers want them .

Steve

Darkside said:

Take up skeet then, targets are the SUPPOSED to be the same wherever you go...

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Darkside, just corrected your post!

:fie:   Steve,  let me "educate" you! This modern idea of high scores began when the "Yanks" started to hold World Championships! Its all down to bums on seats.

The "Yanks"  want to shoot Sporting with winning scores ALWAYS in the 90+s so they want Fitasc Sporting to be won with similar scores, so the targets at  World Championships, World Cup events etc., have been "dumbed down" to enable this to happen ilot:  

 Fitasc Paris want 1000+ shooters at a World C/ship  when held in the USA and Europe if possible its all about MONEY not the good of the sport!  :nyam:  

Under the rules now, a peg of 4 singles must consist of 2 "soft" targets 1 medium target and 1 medium hard target and you cannot raffale the medium/hard target  so high score prevail.

It used to be the most challenging of clay shooting sports but greedy "officials" are ruining it? :crazy:   but thats progress I guess?

Thanks Cyril for clarification , what I am saying is " yes shoots should be won on 90s but I don't think there should be that many that the winner wins because his main competitor missed one for some reason

We went all through every target before the Grand Prix and scored it accordingly on the sliding scale ( what a load of bollox that is )

So if all my fitasc shoots are won on 90 plus and most people enjoy and book for the next , am I doing it wrong ?????

It seems that with compak in the uk and " big score fitasc abroad " they sem much of a muchness to me

I am not getting involved in another argument about who's right and wrong , shooting these events with big scores don't interest me one bit

So this is my last post on this

Probably steve

Steve,I am talking in general on this subject, not getting at any one in particular, I have no problem with shooters wanting to shoot hard targets but they do not resemble what you will shoot at the European or World Championships. :slow:  

I never heard one person complain at the European (Konopiste) or the Dutch G. Prix about the targets, in fact the Dutch G.P. was not under the auspices of Fitasc Paris so they could throw what targets they wished.

 Just a point, Its harder to win an soft shoot than a hard shoot because you cannot regain any targets you have lost, its grind grind every parcour and the shooter with the best concentration is the winner. :hunter:   

Surely the reason most of us go clay shooting is for enjoyment. When I go shooting and blow the thick end of £100 on a 100 bird shoot, I want to be entertained I want targets that make me smile,make me cry,make me think. Not the same old boring crap that most ground owners seem to want to put on these days,because its easy to set up and everybody shoots 90+. Fitasc used to be the formula one of all disciplines, but as guru says, because of the governing body wanting big numbers at shoots abroad to generate big money for them, it's getting more like an expensive English sporting shoot. You only have to look at the entries at any of Steve's shoots to realise he must be doing something right. I think if he ( and one or two other ground owners) have the balls to put targets on that entertain people then they should be supported.
I think the GB teams that are selected,by and large,are always on the podium. Sure the gap between us and other countries has come down as the targets have got easier but I think the cream will always rise whatever the targets.

Here here !!

I think fitasc still is the rolls Royce when organisers can be bothered

I love shooting fitasc and good shoots I have done this year are west London , grimpsthorpe , long ridge , Westfield ( of course )

It's the mix and variety that stands out to me

Don't want 85 long range clays they need to be balanced across all hoops . The big no no to me is a horrible edge on that the setter thinks " that'll do " instead of introducing another trap

shootinguru said:

:fie: Darkside, I think you are missing the point! I am talking about Selection shoots to pick our teams to shoot abroad at Championships, not monthly fitasc shoots at our local grounds. we have to shoot the type of targets that will br presented at said Championships! :comando:

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I'm not missing your point...I don't agree with your point!!! I didn't drive from Glasgow to Westfield to shoot at a "local ground"...I won't be driving the 5+ hours to Kegworth to shoot at a "local ground" either!!! If I'm spending £400-500 to shoot a two day shoot I want the targets to be worth it!!! Don't worry about the GB FITASC team qualifying by shooting big targets...

I'm with Steve! Could happily never shoot another fitasc euro/world shoot and not feel I'd missed out.

Sooner do a GP at Steves any day!

That is a shame Ed.

christ this old argument! this has been going on for at least 15 years, bottom line is, FITASC did want high scores in FITASC Sporting, too many complaints later and they introduce Compak and say they want high skeet scores winning that SO, now they want FITASC Sporting scores to be lowered by introducing harder targets, so English style fitasc rules once more! Fauldsy won the dutch thingey mahjig, so I think we can expect english shooters to clean up at all the fitasc shoots for the next 10 years...

Nicola said:

That is a shame Ed.

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All about enjoyment for me, and that comes from testing targets, not who blinks first. Rather win a good shoot on 90-91 than hit 189 ex200 and come in top 15 in the euros/worlds.

If I want a pat on the back ill ask mummy, I don't need targets to do it for me.

:fie:   The purpose of selection shoots are to pick the team to represent G.B. at the European/World Fitasc Sporting C/ships!

Are we getting the right shooters in the team? because we are not cleaning up on all the medals we should have team wise! George, Ben, and Richard amongst others are doing very well but the "Yanks" and French teams are taking medals that should be British :fie:

Darkside,  I  think that you have a little more to learn about Fitasc sporting, in the way its run in the UK and how its run everywhere else? don't forget its a French discipline and they write the rules however they think fit, also the rules on targets and what you may present is written in the rules pages on our own BICTSF  website! :crazy:   

EdSolomons said:

All about enjoyment for me, and that comes from testing targets, not who blinks first. Rather win a good shoot on 90-91 than hit 189 ex200 and come in top 15 in the euros/worlds.

If I want a pat on the back ill ask mummy, I don't need targets to do it for me.

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I know....but I would like to see you on a World or European podium several times....and to do that you have to be 'in it to win it'....so hope you reconsider.

Mummy xx