12G or 20G

Hi, my girlfriend and I have recently started shooting and have had a couple of lessons. At the first lesson she was given a 28G silver pigeon and I had a 12G. She shot really well and instantly wanted to take up the sport. I got my licence and bought a 12G Silver pigeon. However we have gone out several times now and although she enjoys it her wrists are hurting after 20 or so clays as she finds the gun heavy. The gun shop on site said she should buy a 20G but the coach has said it would be best for her to learn to shoot the 12G. I will in time buy her a gun and then get both of ours fitted to us properly but I don't want to buy the wrong type of gun for her and get her 'stuck' with only being able to shoot a 20G and possible limit specific targets in the future.

What would you recommend?

I am too new to this to advise but IMHO you have not provided any useful information abut your girlfriend in terms of build, size, strength.

If she finds the gun too heavy and her wrists hurt then she will soon want to stop going.

In all the posts Ihave seen on here, comfort and fit is vital. I don't think you should be buying something that is not right and having it altered later.

Difficult one to answer without seeing her shoot and of course her build matters a little too. In principal the coach is right, 12g is where it's at, so you'll need to find a way to persevere; 20g and smaller means the guns would be lighter and generally won't have the dynamics of a proper 12g. They'll also kick more unless you buy light loads intended for the gun. The 28g for example is designed to shoot 19 gram of shot but people routinely shoot 24 or 28 gram loads through them.

Basically it takes a while for the body and mind to work out a fluid way of holding, loading, firing and ejecting a gun, watch a good shooter and it looks ridiculously easy, a beginner makes it look awkward. Last week I was shooting in a mid week practice squad when a lovely lady turned up with a 12 gauge and I watched her shoot off the left shoulder (she'd been told to do so because of her master eye despite being right handed) and then twisting the gun and barrels round to eject into the bin, she was literally taking a step towards the bin and then back. I talked her through some basics as soon as I could and explained she just has to find a way of being fluid.

My advice to her was to practice ejecting with empties or snap caps; your girlfriend is almost certainly not holding the right part of the gun or maybe needs to fine tune her dismount in such a way as to avoid holding it single handed for any length of time. I dislike obvious nose heaviness in guns for this very reason, if you watch people who load from the right pocket you'll notice they cradle the centre of the gun with their left hand which provides absolute balance and next to zero holding effort. I load from the left pocket so will often rest the bend of the gun on the cage barrier if possible or if one is not present then I let the whole barrel drop level with my legs so again next to no strain on the wrist.

Many other factors may be at play here, if she's of slight build and the gun is new (Beretta's aren't renowned for being easy openers) then the very act of opening the gun may be tiring her out. Get an experienced person to watch her a bit and devise a different routine with minimisation of strain in mind. I take it she's OK with the recoil thing?

Thanks guys. Appreciate the in depth response Hamster. Yes she is fine with the recoil. We are planning to do some mounting practise over the weekend and work on the enjecting as she did find it hard. She is 5ft 10 and a size 12 but has always suffered from weak wrists.

I think we'll stick with the 12G and get some practise in to she can get comfortable and get a routine that works and then i'll get another 12G and get this fitted to her properly.

Look for a suitable 12g, they are all different in weight, and very light loads can be bought, which will limit recoil. Also have some lessons from a reputable coach. Without knowing anything about her at all no-one can say she needs xyz gun!

The other thing you need to look out for is if you got a 12 and your girlfriend has a twenty is getting cartridges mixed up,if you drop a twenty into a 12 gauge it will lodge a few inches down the barrel ,drop a 12 gauge in behind and it can have serious consequences, i used to have a 20 and a 12 but got rid of it for this reason.

People think it,ll never happen to me but it happened to someone i know last year,got some shells mixed up at a game shoot(thinks there was an odd one in his bag as his young son uses a twenty) the result was lost part of his thumb and hand,had to have part of his leg grafted back into his hand,and the chap in question was a very experianced shot!!

I,d go with a 12 for her,musle will built over time,i know some very slight girls who shoot and all use 12 gauge.

And bear in mind that it is not an action her body is used to doing yet so in time the muscles that are being used to carry out the movements will become stronger as a result of the progressive overload and will then be able to cope with the weight, exactly the same principle as weight training...... And no she won't end up with wrists like Arnold schwarzneggers thighs.

Cheers,

Tom

I agree with previous posts, stay with a 12 but get a light one a beretta 686 or similar. Then muscle memory Will kick in given time and practice

thanks all. I've looked at some ultalights on line but will also look at the 686 to find a lighter 12G

Good posts above. The other BIG element is that beginners spend ages holding the gun up when they shoot, making any weight seem much worse. This problem reduces after time of course, in conjunction with muscles building up and less awkward hold style. In short, persevere, it will go away IMO.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation recently. Having taken up the sport on after a couple of very successful lessons she was hooked. Rather than wait for the next lesson she had a shoot of my 32" 682 GE with some 28g Top Ones in. It was too big and heavy all round, and she bruised her shoulder.

She has now test driven an ultralight gold in the perfect size, with some 21g comp x. It seems to be the perfect set up for her. womping clays and loving it now.

Your coach was right. Stick to 12 and learn to use it properly.

Tom said:

And bear in mind that it is not an action her body is used to doing yet so in time the muscles that are being used to carry out the movements will become stronger as a result of the progressive overload and will then be able to cope with the weight, exactly the same principle as weight training...... And no she won't end up with wrists like Arnold schwarzneggers thighs.

Cheers,

Tom

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Buy a power ball and use that for exerecise for wrists and arms.

Great bit of kit you can use anytime. when you get the gyro up to speed it really takes some holding on to.

Ah good point Tiptop - i have one of those for golf. I'll get her working on that.

The muscles needed are fairly specific. I would just get her to mount the gun every night at home about 50 times. Done right it will also help with the mount itself..

You could consider getting a 12bore auto. This would have several advantages for her and not many draw backs,

Regards,

Mark

Nicola said:

Your coach was right. Stick to 12 and learn to use it properly.

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Sound advice from a lady who knows her stuff!!!!! :wink:

My experience is limited to two 20g O/U guns which were given to me. A Winchester and a Beretta both had a kick like a Blackpool donkey with muzzle flip. Only a few weeks ago, I saw a women with a 20g who kept missing over the top of a quartering clay, I gave her my 12g 682 with some F-Blu 24gms to try. She took a couple of swings to get used to the weight difference then smoked the clays that gave her the trouble. The gun performed well for her on the remains of the round and her comments at the end was that she had almost no recoil and would be changing her gun, her hubby was not quite so happy because that spoilt his game gun idea of using her gun.

Phil

My daughter started shooting at 14yrs, she's very slightly built and was started off on 12g and has stuck with it. She uses a Beretta Prevail which has been very good. Her first gun was a cheap second hand Miroku which had considerably more recoil. The gun does make a difference but i've found that using 24gm cartridges as opposed to 28gm has made the biggest difference, she could use 21gm (it's controvercial, i know, but I think they're as good). The fit of the gun is important too. She experienced bruising to her face at first but once the cartridges were changed and the fit changed slightly this no longer happens. Although she's now 17 on a 120 target shoot the recoil still takes it's toll so she's now considering using 21gm on some targets. 12g are far cheaper than 20g so i guess it also depends on the depth of your pocket and how serious your girlfriend is going to take shooting. If she's going to take it seriously she'll probably need to get in the gym and build her muscles but she'll naturally get more used to it the longer she shoots My daughter is very serious about it so does work on her strength purely for her shooting. Have a read of articles by top shots such as Pet Easton, they're very informative. Oh, and good luck.