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tomshem93

DTL centre dominance

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tomshem93
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I've recently discovered that I have to convert to one eyed shooting for DTL. With sporting, skeet etc. I can keep both eyes open with success, however, it just does not work for me in DTL. I think I have some degree of centre dominance (as does everyone I believe), and mine kicks in on straightish, going away targets.

I want the perks of being a two eye shooter for DTL, such as high hold point and peripheral pickup. Is it unheard of to keep both eyes open initially for the pickup and then close, or squint one eye before pulling the trigger? 

I'm aware people who preach two eye shooting will probably say 'you're doing it wrong', or 'you're aiming it' but there are plenty of top ranking one eye ATA shooters in America, so I think one-eye shooting is perfectly acceptable in DTL and will only put you at a real disadvantage on disciplines like sporting and skeet. 

Edited by tomshem93

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Jan Powell
1 hour ago, tomshem93 said:

I want the perks of being a two eye shooter for DTL, such as high hold point and peripheral pickup. Is it unheard of to keep both eyes open initially for the pickup and then close, or squint one eye before pulling the trigger? 

I'm aware people who preach two eye shooting will probably say 'you're doing it wrong', or 'you're aiming it' but there are plenty of top ranking one eye ATA shooters in America, so I think one-eye shooting is perfectly acceptable in DTL and will only put you at a real disadvantage on disciplines like sporting and skeet. 

My first question is, why do you want a high hold? I'm second guessing your answer will be, because it reduces the amount of gun movement to get to the target, i.e. only horizontal movement is required.

There's undoubtedly some top line DTL shooters that use this method however it's worth bearing in mind you're really robbing Peter to pay Paul. What you gain in less gun movement you lose as far as rapid target pick up is concerned. I tried it myself years ago but found the trade off to be too great and reverted to a 'close to the traphouse lid' hold.

One eyed shooting is perfectly acceptable across all the trap disciplines and especially DTL, indeed if you've a dominance issue you'll really have no choice but to shoot one eyed. It's perhaps not ideal as you'll lose most of your peripheral vision but plenty of very successful DTL shooters shoot with only their master eye and post big scores doing so.

As far as switching from two eyes to one whilst the target's in flight. I wouldn't simply because I think your asking a lot of your eyes to perform this consistently and without error over and over again. I do know a U.S. competitor that claimed he was able to do this without conscious thought but he'd been clay and wing shooting since he was old enough to hold a gun and it probably came instinctively.

If you need a UK based coach that can help you with trap shooting eye related issues I know an expert, drop me a message.

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tomshem93

@Jan Powell Thanks, it's been working for me but as you say it could lead to a lot of inconsistency. I could do with some guidance as to how to set up my gun and visual holds for the change in technique.

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Paul120
1 hour ago, Jan Powell said:

My first question is, why do you want a high hold? I'm second guessing your answer will be, because it reduces the amount of gun movement to get to the target, i.e. only horizontal movement is required.

There's undoubtedly some top line DTL shooters that use this method however it's worth bearing in mind you're really robbing Peter to pay Paul. What you gain in less gun movement you lose as far as rapid target pick up is concerned. I tried it myself years ago but found the trade off to be too great and reverted to a 'close to the traphouse lid' hold.

One eyed shooting is perfectly acceptable across all the trap disciplines and especially DTL, indeed if you've a dominance issue you'll really have no choice but to shoot one eyed. It's perhaps not ideal as you'll lose most of your peripheral vision but plenty of very successful DTL shooters shoot with only their master eye and post big scores doing so.

As far as switching from two eyes to one whilst the target's in flight. I wouldn't simply because I think your asking a lot of your eyes to perform this consistently and without error over and over again. I do know a U.S. competitor that claimed he was able to do this without conscious thought but he'd been clay and wing shooting since he was old enough to hold a gun and it probably came instinctively.

If you need a UK based coach that can help you with trap shooting eye related issues I know an expert, drop me a message.

Good point. 

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TRINITY
3 hours ago, tomshem93 said:

I've recently discovered that I have to convert to one eyed shooting for DTL. With sporting, skeet etc. I can keep both eyes open with success, however, it just does not work for me in DTL. I think I have some degree of centre dominance (as does everyone I believe), and mine kicks in on straightish, going away targets.

I want the perks of being a two eye shooter for DTL, such as high hold point and peripheral pickup. Is it unheard of to keep both eyes open initially for the pickup and then close, or squint one eye before pulling the trigger? 

I'm aware people who preach two eye shooting will probably say 'you're doing it wrong', or 'you're aiming it' but there are plenty of top ranking one eye ATA shooters in America, so I think one-eye shooting is perfectly acceptable in DTL and will only put you at a real disadvantage on disciplines like sporting and skeet. 

I am only a novice at dtl and still trying to get a few things right myself. I still have problems missing straight away targets on peg 3 and the one eye method seemed to help me with that. However on pegs 1 and 5 if you get a very wide bird especially in windy conditions it's like a skeet crosser and I found the both eyes method the best. After some experimenting I have decided to persevere with both eyes open as overall I think it gives you most benefits. However one eye or both eyes is not my main problem, concentration over 100 targets is my real killer 😁

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Jan Powell
2 hours ago, tomshem93 said:

@Jan Powell Thanks, it's been working for me but as you say it could lead to a lot of inconsistency. I could do with some guidance as to how to set up my gun and visual holds for the change in technique.

Happy to help in getting you going. I'm Yorkshire based so if you're ever up this way let me know and i'll see what I can do.

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jwpzx9r

I watched a youtube video during lockdown by Russel Mark in which he opined that the shooter who uses both eyes should adopt a higher gun hold for DTL than the one eyed shooter. With caveats to be fair he does say even if you use both eyes when shooting if have a poor technique and habitually move the gun too early it is probably better to stick with a low hold.

 

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Jan Powell
2 hours ago, jwpzx9r said:

I watched a youtube video during lockdown by Russel Mark in which he opined that the shooter who uses both eyes should adopt a higher gun hold for DTL than the one eyed shooter. With caveats to be fair he does say even if you use both eyes when shooting if have a poor technique and habitually move the gun too early it is probably better to stick with a low hold.

 

Two observations...

1. Russell's riding the low hold targets out. Perhaps to better demonstrate the point he's making but they could have been shot a metre or two sooner.

2. He's shooting a high ribbed trap gun. High ribbed guns are much better suited to a high hold. To mount low negates the advantages of using a high rib. 

Nevertheless, an interesting video. Ultimately, and as I said earlier, what you gain with one hand you lose with another. That's assuming of course you're shooting both eyes open. If you're relying entirely on the one eye then the hold point decision's made for you.

 

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Wonko the Sane

A good friend of mine is a Nora Martin fan and arranges her clinics in NorCal.  She conducts clinics all over the US and is respected to the max.  She shoots one-eye in ATA comps for longer than she prolly cares to admit (hahaha) and has won about everything there is to win (most of it a couple times).  I have never looked but she may have some info in the 'net.    

Worth a try

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tomshem93
On 7/27/2020 at 12:20 PM, Jan Powell said:

Happy to help in getting you going. I'm Yorkshire based so if you're ever up this way let me know and i'll see what I can do.

Very nice of you to offer. Unfortunately, I'm up above the border, so probably wouldn't be able to make it. What has the low gun hold done for your visual hold? Are you looking just above the barrel or further above to where you'll see the clay as a solid object? 

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Jan Powell
3 hours ago, tomshem93 said:

Very nice of you to offer. Unfortunately, I'm up above the border, so probably wouldn't be able to make it. What has the low gun hold done for your visual hold? Are you looking just above the barrel or further above to where you'll see the clay as a solid object? 

That’s question I‘m often asked and it’s difficult to give a precise answer. I hold a soft focus out and above the gun. I’ll see the target as a flash probably less than a foot above the trap. This is sufficient to judge its path and get the gun moving. The hard focus comes a split second later.

Much of it’s about knowing where in relation to the trap house to look rather than how high. I really work on seeing the target as soon as I can and letting my brain do the calculations from there.

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