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psych4shooting

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Sep 12, 2011
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508
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Gloucestershire
A light hearted thread - I think.

20 years ago there wasn`t internet, there were no Forums, there were magazines and word of mouth. Back then I was seen as a Witch Doctor by many. In the early years of sports science and sports psychology, the UK was about 20+ years behind the USA and 10 years behind Australia, it was the birth of the Australian Institute of Sport. Those countries looked at sport from every angle to make the difference, today we see the Chinese join the sporting force (admittedly the US and China have strength in numbers), but research and sports science support makes a massive difference - if you look to British Cycling, you see how the individual, the technology and the sports science programme work as one.

Today in the majority of sports and in clay shooting we see practising sports professionals, such as myself and Henry, professional practitioners - no longer seen as Witch Doctors (ok, a few still do!!). It is interesting to see the growth of the sports psychology thread within this, but also when you look around to Charles Milne & Ed Lyons to name two professionals within clay shooting from another angle. The sport of clay shooting can only improve as the level of professionals improves. Yes the breakthroughs in gun technology make a difference, the work of chokes, cartridge ballastics etc, but ultimately it is the person who pulls the trigger. Many clay shooters just want to hit a few more targets and have fun, just as others want to win the major titles - everyone benefits from research and sharing of information.

Just wanted to share my thoughts on the emergence of sports support professionals and the benefit they can bring to the sport.

Anyway off to make some more potions!!

 
I do have to say that whilst it is useful and interesting this 'new' sports science can border on being a load of 'tosh'.

I remember when I played pro- football being encouraged to take lots of salt to combat cramp. Then 'new' science said heaven forbid don't take salt, cut out salt it is bad for you. Now we find that new thinking is it's good for you, but like everything it needs to be in moderation.

As the old un's say 'it's common sense at the end of the day.'

 
If it was common sense I dare say there would be a few more people banging in high 90s often!

 
Ed,

I think that we do need to differentiate between psychology and ability, all the mental strengths and focus in the World will not overcome lack of ability.

I certainly am not rubbishing the works of sports scientists. As they will tell us all, we have to give them something to work with.

 
If it was common sense I dare say there would be a few more people banging in high 90s often!

 
Sorry that seems just to have re sent!!

You are of course correct, but it is nonetheless a vital aspect of successful competing at many levels.

A very in depth subject that could have more words and paragraphs tha gun fit, shells and choke Combined!

 
Ed,

I think that we do need to differentiate between psychology and ability, all the mental strengths and focus in the World will not overcome lack of ability.
:) :) This is why I'll take basic skill over mind games every time....................for now anyway. GD was asked what he thought was the cause of why we missed - basic lack of technical ability he said. :.: :wink: :.:

 
And you think GD tells the truth all the time and tells everything how it is??? Then your thicker than I thought! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

 
It's not that stupid Glen, you watch the same guys bang in the scores and they're not doing it via Yoga :wink: , I'm not rubbishing the mental game, just suggesting there are more ticks to be had by learning why you can't hit a particular type of bird. Even when the top guys are off their peak for some reason they still manage to outshoot most and that is down to basics.

I've had enough 6-7's on my cards to know I'm missing stuff cos I don't know how to hit them. Also nothing but nothing improves your mental strength and confidence like knowing how to deal with a target, you might miss one or at most two when in a tense shoot off or similar stressful situation but you won't miss all five as happens when technique fails.

 
I'm not rubbishing the mental game.........

Even when the top guys are off their peak for some reason they still manage to outshoot most..........

I've had enough 6-7's on my cards to know I'm missing stuff cos I don't know how to hit them........

............you might miss one or at most two when in a tense shoot off or similar stressful situation but you won't miss all five as happens when technique fails.
Hammy, the one or two in a tense/stressful situation is what separates the guys who nearly win from the guys who do win!!!

Do you shoot England team qualifiers or do you stay local? Do you shoot the majors? Do you shoot FITASC shoots? I've never shot Horne, the fact George Digweed straights it, or anywhere else is down to more than pure technical ability, it takes mental focus and more.......

Did you ever think to yourself, "why do the top shots still manage to outshoot most even when they are off there peak?" I suggest it's their mental strength and will to win that pulls them through every bit as much as technical ability......not just in clay shooting, in any sport!!!

 
Hmmm, this isn't about me or Horne but since you ask George has only ever straighted it once which makes it no different to any other ground he shoots. I don't doubt mental tutoring will help but it'll only give the one or two extra birds to the very top boys, there's plenty more to be had from learning to shoot straight.

I accept it's the route to the absolute top but anyone who thinks it'll bypass skill is just wishful thinking. The reason the top boys outscore the rest is invariably because they put more in, there are exceptions I know so no need to use Ed as a Sunday only example but even he has had enormous early help. I have seen many promising shooters (and a few not so promising) gain huge leaps in skill/scores by practicing and learning, mental strength is right at the very end in my view. The other thing is that more often than not those who do reach the top have that certain arrogant belief in the first place, you won't make everyone into a winner, you either have it or you don't I'm afraid.

You can give the average guy 5 extra birds with technique/technical appraisal, you'll be wasting your time trying to help him hit stuff he misses with magic mind matters.

 
I don't doubt mental tutoring will help...........,there's plenty more to be had from learning to shoot straight.

I accept it's the route to the absolute top.........

The reason the top boys outscore the rest is invariably because they put more in........

............ I have seen many promising shooters (and a few not so promising) gain huge leaps in skill/scores by practicing and learning, mental strength is right at the very end in my view.
Shortened your post to the bullet points......you kind of contradict yourself at times. Listen, Hammy, show me where any of the advocates for "mental training" have said that "mental training" will/would/could substitute technical skill? That's right, none of them have!!! What they all do say is once you have reached a plateau in the 90's then the mental side of the game really takes over......well, if you are actually serious about competing, you know, England selection shoots, Majors, FITASC shoots, you know, the ones you dodged the questions about!!!

 
I remember when I played pro- football being encouraged to take lots of salt to combat cramp. Then 'new' science said heaven forbid don't take salt, cut out salt it is bad for you. Now we find that new thinking is it's good for you, but like everything it needs to be in moderation.
Ah well there's natural salt and then there's refined sodium chloride usually called table salt. The 1st is beneficial (in moderation) but the 2nd, whilst not literally toxic, does significantly more harm than good and is a major factor in high blood pressure problems in older people who've added it to food over a number of years.
 
....well, if you are actually serious about competing, you know, England selection shoots, Majors, FITASC shoots, you know, the ones you dodged the questions about!!!
I've touched on this subject before but admittedly you weren't around the forums back then.................I'm not serious enough. Put simply not enough money, time or the right family circumstances, in no particular order. I have shot long enough though to know I'm not just 2 birds shy of the big time.

 
You are trying to quantify a theoretical scenario........
Yes, the whole thread is supposed to be a lighthearted look at sports potions helping to boost performance, how can you quantify that in any way other than theoretical !

 
I've touched on this subject before but admittedly you weren't around the forums back then.................I'm not serious enough. Put simply not enough money, time or the right family circumstances, in no particular order. I have shot long enough though to know I'm not just 2 birds shy of the big time.
Your still trying to quantify the X factor!!!

Where do you get this "2 birds" from? You may only be talking "2 birds" when you are playing safe, staying local, no pressure, big fish/little pond, not got a 4+ hour drive before you shoot, not knowing that you HAVE to be no more than 3 behind HG at a shoot you've never been to before, let alone shot at, to make the team, not got a burning passion to win so strong it hurts, not going into the last 25 of a FITASC knowing you need to straight it just to make the shoot off, not in that shoot off you just shot 25 straight on the last course to get into with a crowd of strangers and people you know, standing watching, some willing you to win, some willing you to fail.......put yourself in that moment and then tell me you wouldn't want to be as mentally prepared as you are technically prepared!?!? I know I would.........

 
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Yes, the whole thread is supposed to be a lighthearted look at sports potions helping to boost performance, how can you quantify that in any way other than theoretical !
No, my whole point!!! But you are the one trying to, "2 birds".......

 
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