B.H. and chokes.

I watched Big Ben on YouTube last night,  well I had the time you see (sorry)  !  It was all about chokes and was more or less what I have advocated to a lot of people over the last 30 years of Instructing. Briley chokes (my favourites), 3/8 and 3/8 being the ideal combination. Although 1/4 and 1/4  Briley have been my choice for a while now, using a World Cup, as and when I felt the need to tighten things up for a longish target. Finally the Bull manure put about by a lot of top shooters,  about the merits of Full and Full chokes and how it aids them to add or subtract lead. So, although we agree about a lot of things regarding gun set up, we are still worlds apart, well, ..............................about 3 classes actually  !     

westley said:

I watched Big Ben on YouTube last night,  well I had the time you see (sorry)  !  It was all about chokes and was more or less what I have advocated to a lot of people over the last 30 years of Instructing. Briley chokes (my favourites), 3/8 and 3/8 being the ideal combination. Although 1/4 and 1/4  Briley have been my choice for a while now, using a World Cup, as and when I felt the need to tighten things up for a longish target. Finally the Bull manure put about by a lot of top shooters,  about the merits of Full and Full chokes and how it aids them to add or subtract lead. So, although we agree about a lot of things regarding gun set up, we are still worlds apart, well, ..............................about 3 classes actually  !     

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yes I watched it , enjoyed it ,  me personally I like big ben ,  looks a great coach  and talks logic  !    tin hat at the ready !

Doctor Lecter said:

yes I watched it , enjoyed it ,  me personally I like big ben ,  looks a great coach  and talks logic  !    tin hat at the ready !

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Yes, you will not need a coat to go into another room  !   

westley said:

I watched Big Ben on YouTube last night,  well I had the time you see (sorry)  !  It was all about chokes and was more or less what I have advocated to a lot of people over the last 30 years of Instructing. Briley chokes (my favourites), 3/8 and 3/8 being the ideal combination. Although 1/4 and 1/4  Briley have been my choice for a while now, using a World Cup, as and when I felt the need to tighten things up for a longish target. Finally the Bull manure put about by a lot of top shooters,  about the merits of Full and Full chokes and how it aids them to add or subtract lead. So, although we agree about a lot of things regarding gun set up, we are still worlds apart, well, ..............................about 3 classes actually  !     

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It's still what people are most confident with. 

There is video series on FB going round asking various top shots what's in their range bags. JBD, one of the top young guns says he shoots 3/4, 3/4 in his 694, but uses different cartridges for different targets. 

I used to be an advocate that 3/8, 3/8 as the best all round chokes for sporting. Now shooting a fixed choke 1/2, 3/4 gun, I haven't seen any difference in my scores. I can shoot just as good/bad what ever I use.

I have no interest in commenting on degree of choke but I can comment on Brileys.  Unfortunately I've seen some really fine guns pretty much destroyed by the installation of aftermarket choke tubes.  My opinion on that is likely already known here.  If the gun came from the factory with a barrel manufactured to take tubes well and good - I have several and have no issues with them.  And if a shooter sees some advantage in obtaining Briley tubes made for those barrels that is most certainly his option no matter how misguided.  So, please, if you have a nice gun and feel that screw-ins would be a worthy addition just get another gun.

I will refrain from telling the horror story about a perfectly lovely SO4EELL that had been butchered by Briley

For every instance of someone telling us they shot a good/wining score with chokes that were mistakenly too open, there will be ones recalling poor hits and even outright misses doing same, including my own experiences where many’s the time I’ve stepped off a stand perplexed at misses or chips only to find my go to 1/2 or 3/4 turned out to be last Sunday’s Cyl let loose on a 12 yard rabbit. 

In other words Ben’s tale tells us little more than what we already know, that patterns are random and if you shoot a string of twenty shots with 1/4 you will see fluctuations of up to one whole denomination up or down. 

I guarantee you young James IS shooting what he says he is and I bet GD’s tubes are tight. 

mmmmm so many variables  ,  good scores are not achieved by choke alone ,   or we would all shoot full full and be in AAA      its a subject that never concludes  !!  

It's not going to play with my head, I have no idea who JBD is

James Bradley-Day, the young buck of the sport.  

A few moments ago a new clip has been released onto YouTube whereby BH talks about chokes for game shooting and quite rightly names lighter as well as tighter ones depending on the terrain and of course time of year; so you see, at the end of the day chokes do matter.

incidentally I’m no spelling nut, but I really think one needs to know the difference between sort and sought.  

So, as a novice, (Think I can still claim to be a novice) I’m still none the wiser.

I'm fairly sure all the guns I’ve shot had chokes in them. Think 1/4 & 1/2 probably. Shot a hundred once with 3/4 & Full. I’m fairly sure I’ve broken all types of clays, various presentations, speed and distance and missed them too. Something approximating 7/10 ratio.
 

At my stage of development I don’t notice any difference in terms of breaks with different chokes, cartridge speed/weight/shot size. Felt the recoil of tighter chokes more though.

Clays not breaking are down to me. I’m quite convinced of that. I’ve never shot without an instructor and I’ve been told only twice out of approximately 2000 clays that a clay didn’t break that should have. So chokes/patterns/cartridge weigh/shot size, 2 birds lost. Idiot pointing gun, 598 birds lost! (A sobering number).

If I were at the TOP end of AAA seems to me on these odds, it might cost a place or two in the rankings, but there’s five times that difference between the top ranking and second placed man.

Now I’ve honestly precious little idea what chokes any top shot uses, except now JBD, BH and a couple others in the top 20 I’ve spoken to and there seems to be wide variation in what they use. I’ve spoken also to some good AA and A shots, who in there time have been AAA and won majors, again much variety in their choke choices.

My conclusion is, I need to learn to shoot  about 25/100 better than I do currently and when (IF) I do, I can maybe start worrying about my chokes and cartridges.

Wonko the Sane said:

I have no interest in commenting on degree of choke but I can comment on Brileys.  Unfortunately I've seen some really fine guns pretty much destroyed by the installation of aftermarket choke tubes.  My opinion on that is likely already known here.  If the gun came from the factory with a barrel manufactured to take tubes well and good - I have several and have no issues with them.  And if a shooter sees some advantage in obtaining Briley tubes made for those barrels that is most certainly his option no matter how misguided.  So, please, if you have a nice gun and feel that screw-ins would be a worthy addition just get another gun.

I will refrain from telling the horror story about a perfectly lovely SO4EELL that had been butchered by Briley

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Agreed. I hear so much nonsense about this wonder choke or that. I worked with a competitor a few months ago that was absolutely convinced his Muller chokes bought him at least 5 points over a 100 target competition. The truth is chokes come about 5th in the list of factors that determine whether the target is hit.

Personally, I can see nothing better than the titanium chokes Krieghoff make. Why shoot something other than the factory chokes specifically made for my gun.

Jan Powell said:

Agreed. I hear so much nonsense about this wonder choke or that. I worked with a competitor a few months ago that was absolutely convinced his Muller chokes bought him at least 5 points over a 100 target competition. The truth is chokes come about 5th in the list of factors that determine whether the target is hit.

Personally, I can see nothing better than the titanium chokes Krieghoff make. Why shoot something other than the factory chokes specifically made for my gun.

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Having ref'd a few hundred reg sporting shoots I've seen many 1000s of broken clays and I would say there are 2 makes of gun that are usually fitted with original makers chokes and which seem to break clays a little more comprehensively than other makes of gun. Observation only of course, no science involved so pretty subjective but I would say no gun smashes the clays more thoroughly than a Krieghoff.

Back on topic I would also say that there's much less choke changing compared with a few years ago. One top shot I can think of who used to change for almost every stand now seems to shoot much of the course without changing. Perhaps it's the gradual growth in awareness, as mention above by Hammy and Jan that choke size is a relatively minor factor in building a score.

I think its mostly in your head, shoot what gives you confidence whether thats tight, loose or inbetween..... but it does make me giggle the folk that change chokes for every stand (but if thats what gives them confidence then thats what matters)

Was a good piece Ben, understood and agreed.

I've said this before but using high explosive to accelerate soft lead shot from stationary to supersonic over about 30 inches inside very unforgiving steel tubes is never going to end well for the shot or give any chance of measurable consistency - i.e. if the shot tends to head in the generally right direction and that's about all one can reasonably expect, constrictions, i.e. chokes will just make it worse...the rest is in one's mind. 

I shoot a fixed choke gun 1/2 and full. Now it is generally recognised that I shoot my targets just a little bit further out than most other shooter at my club, who almost to a man shoot 3/4 and full. However although I am not the best shot at the club very few shooters will take me on in a single barreled shoot out... it is not what choke you have it is where you point the gun... now if I could just get that second barrel sorted out  :lol:  .

Another thing is with modern cartridges being used in older guns I am convinced that they hold a slightly tighter pattern than perhaps they did 30 years ago when my gun was made.

jwpzx9r said:

Another thing is with modern cartridges being used in older guns I am convinced that they hold a slightly tighter pattern than perhaps they did 30 years ago when my gun was made.

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I suspect that not much improvement has been made since the advent of the modern plas wad thingies and the consequent reduction in deformed/smeared shot.  IIRC that is generally attributed as a significant event in cart performance.  I know that the 70's guns I have simply love the things and that 1/2 choke in the  first barrel was not much of a handicap

Westward said:

Having ref'd a few hundred reg sporting shoots I've seen many 1000s of broken clays and I would say there are 2 makes of gun that are usually fitted with original makers chokes and which seem to break clays a little more comprehensively than other makes of gun. Observation only of course, no science involved so pretty subjective but I would say no gun smashes the clays more thoroughly than a Krieghoff.

Back on topic I would also say that there's much less choke changing compared with a few years ago. One top shot I can think of who used to change for almost every stand now seems to shoot much of the course without changing. Perhaps it's the gradual growth in awareness, as mention above by Hammy and Jan that choke size is a relatively minor factor in building a score.

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not doubting what you say , but could it also be that by the time someone has been in the sport a while and finally got to the stage abilty that a krieghoff made sence that they are pretty damn good anyways to start with ?

jason king said:

not doubting what you say , but could it also be that by the time someone has been in the sport a while and finally got to the stage abilty that a krieghoff made sence that they are pretty damn good anyways to start with ?

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see more krieghoffs than brownings on my local shoots, they dont all dust them, so may be down to ability.