CPSA Classifications

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Andy S

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
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Basingstoke Hampshire
 OK here's a question for you lot:Should the way in which the CPSA classify shooters now be changed, as with the age of technology we have scores being shown on the CPSA website only a few days after the shoot but it takes 6 months for the classifications to change. Should the classification now be done on a 3 monthly or even a monthly basis as after all the system is and to quote the CPSA " undertaken by the Shoot 08 program".Additionally should the way in which you are classified be changed and your score used as an average of the high gun on the day, this is probably more relevant to sporting than trap disciplines, i.e. if I shot say a, I will use the recent shoot at Four Counties as an example, a glorious 48 ex 100 so in theory this is 48% but the high gun on the day was only 91 which can indicate that the shot was difficult, for what ever reason. So using the percentage of high gun score I would have been on 52% which probably reflects the type of shoot this was and no I'm not after an extra % but to be able to correctly represent the scores from the shoot. Andy

 
a quick reply for you Andy is  Yes I think the way shooters have their classifications is in the stone age — we've had this out on the other site a few times but my thinkin on this subject it Sporting shooting needs to take on board the Golf Handicap system, I played golf for 18/20 years and at the end I got to a 4 handicap but on paper I only got to 5 but you need to know the system to understand my point, I worked on the Match and Handicap committee for about 5/6 years and over the years as my knowledge of the sport became better I realised the handicap system is by far the fairest too all competitors than any other way of doing it, If you know about golf you'll know what I'm sayin if you don't ask someone who does to explain it to you, it's complicated at the start but so are many things at the start but believe me it's fair. Look at the way the Mitsubishi is held every year where its handicapped to keep it fair, about three years ago a young lad of 14 classed in B won the jeep all because it's a handicapped event and everyone shot on a level playin field.  Nige

 
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Agree with most you guys have said but for the AA and AAA  do they think it is fair that those off less ability are able to compete on the same level and be given a free ride!!!???? Where is the prestige and class in that??? Why should you get extra targets when a AA AAA shot has worked his arse off and has talent to get there! Seems stupid I might as well shoot sh*te get the extra handicapped targets  then romp it with the extra clays!!! Happy Days!!!  /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

 
Glen think of you playin golf against me — would it be fair  ??  but if you've got a handicap you can still play a game with me that's fair !   i.e. you'd get at least 18-24 shots playin golf against me so if we were havin a shooting rematch I'd need at least 1 or 2 clays per stand against you to compete, but in both these scenarios were are talkin about the gross prize/high gun, this scenarios i'm suggesting is really only for class prizes – only the low handicapers /AA/AAA will normally with the best gross score . The golf handicap system allows all the i.e. classes C,B,A to compete against each other fairly for class prizes AA/AAA usually will take high gun.I hope I can make my points clear – it's difficult to get across — no one looses birds and it doesn't suggest you should shoot sh*te, if you had a handicap you could compete fairly with the likes of Big George or Ed etc /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gifthe gold handicap system is up dated after Every competition so this means if you shot above your class average you get moved up before the next comp you enter, Or if that can't be done by the committee you're obliged to cut yourself before you enter the next comp and on the opposite  side if you don't play well enough to your handicap at the end of the month you get a moved down, I haven't the time now to explain it all .   Nige

 
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No sorry that is crap if your not good enough that is tough sh*te! It's like giving a child a prize for coming last so they do not feel left out because they did not come in the top 3!!! Exactly why this country is going down hill because we keep giving free hand outs to those who are not willing to put in the effort! If you are crap you are crap you have your class!/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif Classes are there for a reason for you to compete for prizes against people of the same ability! Why should someone get extra clays so they can get a better bite at the big old cherry! Sorry sounds like because the lower class shooters are in the majority here they will win the arguement because it benefits them! Glen.

 
Oh and Nige I would relish the challenge of playing golf against you and I bet I would lift my game! To many times people look for the easy option i am afraid! /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

 
The answer is yes there is a better way- simply use the points system as used for national team selections. Takes into account hardness of shoot and is simple to run.Solomons for mayor!

 
Solomons for Chairman of the CPSA /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
I don't understand the golf handicap system but got to agree with glenn on this one,why if i,m shooting in a reg shoot where say George Digweed may be shooting, should i be given any extra clays,he's the best in the world and thoroughly deserves it.The top shooters deserve to be at the top,they've earned that place.To be honest if i was in that situation and beat George i wouldn't feel i deserved it,it would feel almost like i'd cheated but perhaps thats just me. Can't see any reason why the cpsa averages can't be adjusted every 3 months though!

 
GlenPresley said:

No sorry that is crap if your not good enough that is tough sh*te! It's like giving a child a prize for coming last so they do not feel left out because they did not come in the top 3!!! Exactly why this country is going down hill because we keep giving free hand outs to those who are not willing to put in the effort! If you are crap you are crap you have your class!/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif Classes are there for a reason for you to compete for prizes against people of the same ability! Why should someone get extra clays so they can get a better bite at the big old cherry! Sorry sounds like because the lower class shooters are in the majority here they will win the arguement because it benefits them! Glen.
Here we go again, and I bet you still want the lower class shooters to bolster your prize pots, well guess what? No way matey,/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-kiss.gif my arris. I will from now on shoot birds, only and set up the revolution of all the crap shots to do the same, so you elitists can go short and /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-kiss.gif each others arris's ..
 
I'm only a lowly C class shooter but aiming to climb the classes :)  I'm not sure about the handicap system as it doesn't favour the top A, AA, AAA shooters who have no doubt invested a damn site more time, money and practiced hard to get where they are.  If the CPSA re did the classifications every 3 months subject to a minimum number of registered shoots to be reclassified then that would make sense. I shot a skeet handicap shoot last year and was up against several A and AA shots including an England shooter.  We took the basis of CPSA averages and set the par at 97.  At the end of the shoot I had shot 129ex150 but with the handicap 161.5ex150 and took high gun.  I had been working hard since my last classification and was shooting a lot better but a few month old average enabled me to win overall.  I was the only C class shooter in the squad but the NSSA skeet which i'd never shot before we all shot 46ex50. Overall I agree with more regular reclassification but looking at it from the A, AA, AAA guys I think they would suffer because of it. We will be doing the shoot again this year but with a High Gun trophy for raw hits and a separate Handicap trophy. I really haven't been shooting long enough to know but think Ed's suggestion sounds workable with difficulty levels factored in. Cheers, Jon.

 
Outlaw said:

GlenPresley said:
No sorry that is crap if your not good enough that is tough
sh*te! It's like giving a child a prize for coming last so they do not feel left out because they did not come in the top 3!!! Exactly why this country is going down hill because we keep giving free hand outs to those who are not willing to put in the effort! If you are crap you are crap you have your class!
/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif Classes are there for a reason for you to compete for prizes against people of the same ability! Why should someone get extra clays so they can get a better bite at the big old cherry! Sorry sounds like because the lower class shooters are in the majority here they will win the arguement because it benefits them! Glen.
Here we go again, and I bet you still want the lower class shooters to bolster your prize pots, well guess what? No way matey,
/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-kiss.gif my arris. I will from now on shoot birds, only and set up the revolution of all the crap shots to do the same, so you elitists can go short and 
/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-kiss.gif each others arris's
..
Sorry Tony but the likes of yourself are better of shooting BO lets be honest how many wins have you actually had in your class? makes sense for you to shoot BO and you are showing your old age mate!!!The top shooters are fighting for HG Prize which usually is not paid for by the other classes and then they would be competing for AA which again is from there own class entries!!!Wakey wakey! Go shoot your birds only mate! /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

 
Oh and before you say it I have no problem with prize funds at the moment I am not shooting seriously week in week out anymore! If I was then I would just go to the shoots with the big pay outs like Weston and Westfield!Simple really!/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

 
im still trying to get this handicap system in my head. so,  if the handicap is set at say, 95.  and our ED is on scratch. i am in C class with average of say 62. so my handicap would be 33. out of the 100 clays i would have 38 to play with where ED has only 5, a few chips here and there and a big score could go in for me. on the handicap shoot i shot a 74, because it was an easy shoot leaving me with a total of 107/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gifED shot well for a 96/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-cool.gif     So i win. but!!  it would be impossible for ED to win as he can not get more than 100, whereas i can. Is this how it would work or am i way off the mark here./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif

 
I'm suggestin that the handicap system is used for High Gun, I'm suggesting it's used for class average scores and to stop sandbaggin !    if it's worked out correctly it can be used to put shooters into their proper classes monthly and even weekly after every event If they shoot out of their class average,  In golf weekly competitions havin a handicap of 24 isn't goin to allow that competitor to lift the gross prize as the Gross / Hugh Gun prize  is a non handicaped result, i.e when I play off 8 a long time ago I shot a level par round of 72 which on that day was only equalled by one other low man who also shot 72 gross, so he get the Gross/HG price and I got the points prize as I could win both, the handicap system I'm suggesting is only to be used to keep tighter control over members scores so they are in the correct classes so they are havin a fair chance of competin against others in their own classes -- Never is a handicap system used for a low class shooter i.e C class to compete with a AA/AAA for the Gross/High Gun prize but only for the net prize -- this is the only time they can shoot together on an equal footin,  I'm sorry If I can't get into words how I would like my point to come across /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-embarassed.gifI am not suggestin for one minute that I should have a handicap that would allow me added birds that could take away i.e. Ed's  high gun prize !Nige

 
Something like that but that system is a little harsh on the AAA and AA shots, I think the idea of taking the HG of a shoot and working class averages from this is the right way to go. For me the whole classification system is set to low, what is the % for AAA now? 86 or87??? Not many sporting shoots are won on this nowadays! i would say AAA is 90+ nowadays! Re-Classification should be done Quarterly and based on the HG of the registered shoots shot! This is for Fitasc and Sporting! You can just split the shoot scores up by AA, A, B and C on the result of one shoot easily.You would soon get a better % classification and more true. Glen.

 
Yes — it's not to effect the High Gun score in any way /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif   can you see were I'm comin from now ?  it's a complicated system until you get your hear round it ( but then so are a lot of new ideas )  Nige

 
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Nigel said:

I'm suggestin that the handicap system is used for High Gun, I'm suggesting it's used for class average scores and to stop sandbaggin !    if it's worked out correctly it can be used to put shooters into their proper classes monthly and even weekly after every event If they shoot out of their class average,  In golf weekly competitions havin a handicap of 24 isn't goin to allow that competitor to lift the gross prize as the Gross / Hugh Gun prize  is a non handicaped result, i.e when I play off 8 a long time ago I shot a level par round of 72 which on that day was only equalled by one other low man who also shot 72 gross, so he get the Gross/HG price and I got the points prize as I could win both, the handicap system I'm suggesting is only to be used to keep tighter control over members scores so they are in the correct classes so they are havin a fair chance of competin against others in their own classes -- Never is a handicap system used for a low class shooter i.e C class to compete with a AA/AAA for the Gross/High Gun prize but only for the net prize -- this is the only time they can shoot together on an equal footin,  I'm sorry If I can't get into words how I would like my point to come across /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-embarassed.gifI am not suggestin for one minute that I should have a handicap that would allow me added birds that could take away i.e. Ed's  high gun prize !Nige
Ok I hear you now Nige I agree with that! /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif
 

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