Disqualified

Looks like someone could have had the pen out in the USA English sporting ? 

How is this even possible in a major event with master scoresheets and how does this not get reviewed at the time rather than a month later?

Allegations of cheating are very hard to prove. 

Is it a genuine mistake by the ref / refs or something more nefarious by the competitor. 

Investigation then right of reply to those findings take time and It was brought to the attention of the NSCA after the shoot was over hence the delay.

Someone is very vocal on the shotgun world forum about what allegedly happened. Most of his post have been removed until an official response is posted which I think is only fair. But it does give an indication of what was alleged to have happened.

Clay pigeon shooting ..................... .............CHEATING  ?...........................Nah, it could not be true   !

Silly to go tampering with scorecards when you have previous form for doing exactly that.

I’ll pop my moderators hat on for this one.

Whilst I know this is hot gossip at the moment care needs to be taken when discussing this online. By all means share your thoughts by PM but please do not get yourself or the website into trouble by naming and shaming. Let the appropriate authorities do that if they wish.

Seen some fone footage

This was hot gossip at Southdown today that’s for sure

Is it The usual suspect ???

wynno said:

Is it The usual suspect ???

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Yes.

Hah, no idea what or who you're on about but love it that someone is known across the shooting world as a massive tw*t. :declare:

I had heard about this a few weeks ago. Some mention of a 2 year disqualification? Shame, as I really thought someone like him could raise the profile of clay pigeon shooting and get more youngsters involved. 

Not seen anything factual, so could just be BS.

However much we all speculate, let the shooting ground and the relevant American association investigate the allegation. If he’s found to have altered the card to his advantage then he must be punished.

The other question is if the ncsa decide that further action is required, what will the cpsa do? Follow suit, nothing or bury their head in the sand as it happened abroad? 

Jonny English said:

The other question is if the ncsa decide that further action is required, what will the cpsa do? Follow suit, nothing or bury their head in the sand as it happened abroad? 

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I was told (by a competition clay shooter) that in the past the CPSA refused to take testimony from witnesses and denied there was any case to answer because a CPSA official was not amongst the witnesses. 

Interesting point: the person in question had Google results showing pages about him redacted. 

When you have 12 year old kids reffing a major world title then things are bound to happen. Not good for the sport to start with. Card tampering, why are the NSCA using individual cards and not a squad card for all 6 shooters? Less chance of tampering going on.

As for the CPSA doing anything, it's not in their jurisdiction as it happened in America at an NSCA competition, so probably won't do anything.

This and other things in this sport is why it will never be taken seriously on the world stage, as a professional sport.

tiptop said:

When you have 12 year old kids reffing a major world title then things are bound to happen. Not good for the sport to start with. Card tampering, why are the NSCA using individual cards and not a squad card for all 6 shooters? Less chance of tampering going on.

As for the CPSA doing anything, it's not in their jurisdiction as it happened in America at an NSCA competition, so probably won't do anything.

This and other things in this sport is why it will never be taken seriously on the world stage, as a professional sport.

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12 years old? Seriously?

Well, I’m not sure that I agree the sport isn’t being taken seriously because of cheating. Such things and much worse have gone on since the dawn of time in many high profile sports such as football, formula one, horse racing, but if 12 year olds are refereeing then that would certainly be a cause for concern.

I don’t have any real evidence to back up this hypothesis, but to be taken seriously, (assuming this means broad media coverage and large prize funds) then bigger sponsors are needed along with a big audience. You need big personalities and some skullduggery actually wouldn’t go amiss. It all adds to the intrigue. Of course a ‘robust’ set of rules and “enforcement” helps the sponsors distance themselves from such nefarious activities, while they’d secretly be gleeful at the extra column inches it would give to their brands, just so long as their brand isn’t implicated.

I spoke to someone in sport management a few years ago about a big money big name who’s star had fallen. I asked how they were coping with the situation. The reply was somewhat startling in that they reported their associated brands were happy at the increased attention they were getting. I guess in business there really is no such thing as ‘bad news’

The problem in the UK is our libel laws compared to other countries.

In the UK if you call someone a cheat then if they decide to go legal you would have to prove they were in fact a cheat in a court of law.

If the witness gets cold feet about court, threatened with a civil suit themselves or there could be other explanations which could cast some doubt the CPSA could get hit with a large pay out.

In the USA it is the other way around the alleged cheater would have to prove they were not a cheat to win any pay out therefore the burden of proof is switched on to them.

A carefully worded letter before claim to the CPSA would get them to back down in all cases that they themselves could not prove. In the USA they would just say prove you are not a cheat so they are more likely to punish and ignore legal threats.

I have seen a photo of the alleged card, it does, in my opinion, look to be altered, if this happened in the UK the CPSA would have to prove it was the shooter that altered it, in the USA the shooter would have to prove it wasn’t him.

Lloyd said:

12 years old? Seriously?

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Apparently so, according to one of the accusations, 12 years old kids were forced to alter the master card, then the said person would alter the moving cards on the way round. True or not? Who knows what really happened. Until an official statement is made from NSCA, then it will all be rumours and conjecture.

But one thing for sure, a high profile shooter has been removed from the results list.