Consultation on proposed new firearms licensing

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BASC, Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Tel: 01244 573 000 | contacthttps://basc.org.uk/?email_id=1008&...e&wysija-page=1&wysijap=subscriptions














Firearms licensing consultation



Please respond today!


BASC urges all shooters in England, Wales and Scotland to respond to a consultation that could lead to a significant change in firearms licensing.

The Home Office is consulting on draft statutory firearms licensing guidance for chief officers of police in England, Wales and Scotland.

The proposals would make it mandatory for anyone applying for the grant or renewal of a shotgun or firearms certificate to have their medical declaration information verified by their doctor. However, the proposals place no obligation on the doctors to take part and there is absolutely no guidance on a reasonable charging regime.

BASC wants an efficient, cost-effective, robust system of firearms licensing that protects public safety and provides excellent service to the shooting community. We believe that all parties in the licensing process in England, Wales and Scotland should have statutory duties and must include the doctors.

Combined with an obligatory encoded reminder on medical records, this will facilitate the introduction of ten-year certificates, reducing the burden on the police, doctors and the shooting community.

Click here for the consultation documents.https://basc.org.uk/?email_id=1008&...e&wysija-page=1&wysijap=subscriptions

You can respond by completing a short survey or emailing the Home Office directly.

Click here to complete the consultation response survey.https://basc.org.uk/?email_id=1008&...e&wysija-page=1&wysijap=subscriptions

Click here to email your views to the Home Office.mailto:[email protected]














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Done

Me too 

Done  

There has been some media coverage of the politics of this, that I have heard on Radio 4.  Sorry, I cannot provide a link. The gist of it was that it was recognised that sporting gun owners need transparency and fairness as to the cost of medical certificates and the timescale for delivering them.  Doctors are not really there to write certificates that have no primary care purpose, so it is reasonable to make a charge, but it should be fair and reasonable.  

When my firearms licensing inspector visited me, it was apparent that the police have little issue with law abiding citizens - by definition those of us who apply for licences and abide by the rules are not likely to be a problem. The problem is criminals obtaining firearms unlawfully.  Licensing and medical records will do nothing at all to control that. The authorities must know this.  

shortlegs said:

Just received this email from BASC please click the links ( you may need to right click and open in a new tab if link doesn't work straight away) and read the proposed new changes for all shotgun and firearms application and renewals 

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BASC, Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Tel: 01244 573 000 | contacthttps://basc.org.uk/?email_id=1008&...e&wysija-page=1&wysijap=subscriptions








 

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AJB Temple said:

There has been some media coverage of the politics of this, that I have heard on Radio 4.  Sorry, I cannot provide a link. The gist of it was that it was recognised that sporting gun owners need transparency and fairness as to the cost of medical certificates and the timescale for delivering them.  Doctors are not really there to write certificates that have no primary care purpose, so it is reasonable to make a charge, but it should be fair and reasonable.  

When my firearms licensing inspector visited me, it was apparent that the police have little issue with law abiding citizens - by definition those of us who apply for licences and abide by the rules are not likely to be a problem. The problem is criminals obtaining firearms unlawfully.  Licensing and medical records will do nothing at all to control that. The authorities must know this.  

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I disagree - the GP shouldn't charge.. We (or at least I do and assume the rest doo) pay our taxes, and this should be covered. Any decent GP who knows its patients, should already know if they pose a threat, and it shouldn't require an essay or long winded questionnaire... Like my referee was asked - is there any reason I shouldn't have a certificate?!, is satisfactory - my other argument is that....

If 'Joe Bloggs' became mentally unwell and wanted to hurt people, is 'Joe Bloggs' going to book a GP appointment, wait 4 weeks to tell them.... I don't think so...

Like every law, it only affects those that obey them.

Banning guns and knives doesn't keep them off the street, all it does is weaken the law abiding citizens, and give power to the criminals - which wouldn't bother applying for the licence to begin with..

Sorry for the rant. It just really bugs me when the government put up all these hoops to jump through, when all is does is affect those law abiding citizens and the criminals are laughing all the way to their gangster gun dealer..

I understand Adam, but we must consider this: there are endless reports of GP surgeries having 3 week waits to see a doctor, GPs retiring early due to stress, etc.  GPs her to prioritise and they must make a choice between prioritising a certificate for a leisure activity or dealing with sick patients.  It is clear the the health service can never be funded enough - however much tax we pay, and so there has to be a compromise.  I don't mind paying for a GP letter but I do think it would be better if there was a standard tariff.  It is reasonable for police to ask for a medical opinion.  Doctors are generally self employed within partnerships and they cannot reckless give information.  Many doctors have patient lists of over 1000 people.  They have no chance of knowing them all and even less chance of knowing the ones who are very physically active and rarely ill.  If we force doctors to take speedy and ill considered decisions, what they will do is take a risk averse approach.  Hence any kind of drug issued for depression (often used for trauma relief not depression with some drugs) or any kind of CBT referral with get us a NO on the certificate.  Shooters need to be careful not to shoot ourselves in the foot here.  

I agree with you both as you both have valid points to discuss that's why I just posted this so we shooters can discuss and as many shooters as possible take part to a give a true picture to be drawn from the consultation other wise if the apathy of shooters is not to take part then they cannot moan when the new legislation changes or possibly comes into force . 

I thank all you who have taken the time to take part up to now  :thumbsu:

I've just filled in the survey. 

I have just received my renewal back today (4 months TVP), never paid the doctors fee. 

I personally don't have an issue with paying a fee to the doctor, (contradictory I know), as when I held an HGV licence I had to pay for a medical every 5 years to keep that (vocational) licence. I think things have changed there now though.

My issue, and why I never paid this time is, there are supposed guidelines out there that neither the police nor the doctors seem to want to stick to. I even had a phone call from a woman from TVP, saying that they had had a letter from the GP saying I hadn't paid the fee, and asked if I was going to. My reply was no, as I was going by the HO guidelines of no reply after 21 days then the certificate should proceed. Her reply was OK we will overlook it his time. As of today though TVP are now issuing a standard letter with any forms for new grant/renewal that needs to be filled in by the doctor.

There needs to be statutory rules and fees put in place for this, that all parties are going to agree to and stick to, as this is not going to go away. Like others I don't think this will do anything to solve or lessen gun crime in the UK, and there will always be the one that loses the plot and runs amok for what ever reason. It's sadly something the law abiding shooting community is going to have to live with.

tiptop said:

There needs to be statutory rules and fees put in place for this, that all parties are going to agree to and stick to, as this is not going to go away. Like others I don't think this will do anything to solve or lessen gun crime in the UK, and there will always be the one that loses the plot and runs amok for what ever reason. It's sadly something the law abiding shooting community is going to have to live with.

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Absolutely , if the Home Office wishes a doctors declaration to be part of the process , there must be a mechanism to ensure that the applicant is not disadvantaged by his GP refusing to send such a letter .

In this day and age where medical conditions are filed on the NHS system , it would seem to me it would be more efficient for the police to employ doctors to review the files online, and cover the costs with a standard fee  . After all I doubt if I’ve seen the same GP twice in the last 5 years , and if I have , that means he has 8 minutes knowledge of me as a person , so an online review by a complete stranger would be just as effective. 

Guns are an emotive topic , and  more controls create the illusion of increasing public safety , sadly aimed at an audience who would be horrified if it was harder for them to get a license to drive their much bigger threat to public safety . 

I too have filled this in and made my own views known. As someone who has done FEO work  (it used to be done by front line Coppers,   remember them  ?) I am waiting for someone to explain WHY the need for a Doctors letter in the first place  ?  I can only see that it gives the Police a 'get out of jail FREE card '  should the wheel come off. (as in the 3 major shooting incidents that have already occurred in this Country). In each of those the Police shouldered the blame, possibly rightly so  ?  I  believe that a letter from a Doctor allows the Police to 'pass the buck'  !  It should be remembered that in most of the incidents that involve a mentally unstable person,  that person is out in the Community having been deemed,  by Doctors,  to be fit to be there  !  In some cases where an applicants GP is 'anti gun' they have been refused a letter.  In one case, the applicant changed GP's and went to another surgery where he got his required letter,  written by a Doctor that did not even know him  !

However when did we all become liars? It is a criminal offence to make a false declaration on the firearms licensing form so why do they not trust us?

apparently in Kent two people were found to have made false declarations that’s with 27,000 licences issues yet we are all made to feel like liars did they prosecute the two? I don’t think so , so use the law you already have not make up stupid new processes.

plus did you see the part in how they will contact your neighbours to see if they have any objections why stop their let’s ask the whole street or road !

I have no problem with paying for the Gp's time to return information to the police. The cost should be a standard one across the board. The part that is hard to swallow is if the GP says I will not reply to firearms as I have personal objections. Then it seems the advice from this consultation is the applicant should sort it by changing doctors if you can find one or going down the private route if possible and allowed by your force. The police have doctors on their payroll via retention. They should look over your medical records which are freely available to you from your surgery. And you pay a set fee for this. 

Done and thanks for the "heads up" I'm guilty of ignoring the email from BASC