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antse7en

BH Eye Dominance Rail

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antse7en

Hi all,

Some of you might remember I said I'd do a quick write up of my initial experience with Ben Husthwaite's 'Eye D Rail" device after a couple of weeks use, and here it is. To be clear I'm not endorsing the product, this is simply my objective experience.

Worth pointing out I had initial access some time back to an earlier prototype during a lesson at Kibworth and really got on with it, so I didn't require much convincing in terms of using the device. 

Why did I need it - what were my issues?

I do not (knowingly) suffer from eye dominance issues as a both eyes open shooter, however one thing I've been affected by from day one is occasionally (and intermittently) seeing up the left side of the gun - after some research I stumbled upon a reference to the term "cross firing" which seemed most applicable. A few people had suggested fixes, including ignoring the peripheral view of my barrel, a dot, higher comb, squinting, thumb up on the barrel (which is what I was doing) etc. 

This is basically what I would see (minus the weird gadget attached to it, of course). >Image

I've been shooting for less than a year and made great strides into B class, however crossers were so often letting my card down as I would randomly see up the left of the gun and have no chance of making a move - it also greatly impacted my ability to consistently perceive lead. 

Using it

First day out was at a local shoot, deliberate choice as I generally know the targets and had a baseline for which stands the above issue occurs on. 

The difference on these troublesome targets (longer crossers) was quite remarkable, the lead picture was consistent shot to shot and I could reliably make the same move again and again to break the clay. I noticed some other targets like trap-type and incoming took a little getting used to in terms of sight picture, though not long at all. 

Second day I decided to shoot two rounds of skeet and dropped 3 which is way above my average, followed by a round of DTL dropping more than usual - so this goes back to certain targets requiring a little more getting used to in terms of picture and move. 

I followed up skeet by heading to Dartford and zipping round the sporting layout - this is where the confidence really grew, and I walked the course feeling I'd only miss due to me making a lazy mistake. Every station felt straightforward in terms of breaking down the target and understanding the visual picture. I have no reason to exaggerate my experience but my shooting felt totally transformed. 

My understanding of how the rail works

Geared towards one eyed shooters, this device is there to prevent barrel jumping from cross dominant eyes - keeping the right eye engaged at all times. The technology behind it? Who knows. Maybe it;s stupidly simple, perhaps it's uniquely clever - no idea. 

I also don't know if Ben meant to create something to benefit both eyes open shooters, or whether it was incidental - but for me it boils down to eye stimulation. My left eye has no reason to kick in given that the rail is preventing it from seeing the stand-out object (bead) and therefore the right eye remains completely dominant. 

Thoughts

It's definitely transformed my ability to see a consistent sight picture, and long crossers do not worry me like before - the thumb has stayed up on my barrel due to comfort however there's no squint of my left eye anymore. I'm starting think eye dominance is across a huge spectrum and perhaps people are unknowingly affected by it. There are a couple of chaps on my instagram who said they have the exact same problem I described above, but only ever so often. Perhaps it's easy to accept this stuff as normal.

The product does work, I've seen a number of them around my local club and only one chap said he didn't get on with it - he did have it stuck behind his bead to the left so maybe it was a fitting issue? Who knows. 

Build quality is OK, I have the aluminium version which looks pretty smart, the finish on the end of the bead itself could be better - but I don't really care if it improves my shooting. Some might. 

Anybody who's interested in having a look is more than welcome to play with my MK38 should we cross paths, as it's now a permanent fixture on the gun. 👍

* Edit - one thing I should have mentioned is that I did notice some variation in terms of effectiveness in certain light conditions. A yellow lense, in a dark stand covered by overgrowth was nowhere near as clear (visually) when compared to a bright, open space and the yellow tint lense. In the darker light the bead was overwhelmed and did not present a visible colour, instead it appeared as almost a black bead which I found interesting. 

Edited by antse7en
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buze

For your black bead, it's very likely the effect of the angle of the light in interfering with the polarising filter on your glasses. 

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antse7en
20 minutes ago, buze said:

For your black bead, it's very likely the effect of the angle of the light in interfering with the polarising filter on your glasses. 

I didn’t have a black bead on the gun bud, the point I was making was that in those particular light conditions and with the yellow lense, the (red) bead on the rail appeared almost like a solid black one - this meant the rail itself felt quite different. 👍

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buze
2 minutes ago, antse7en said:

I didn’t have a black bead on the gun bud, the point I was making was that in those particular light conditions and with the yellow lense, the (red) bead on the rail appeared almost like a solid black one - this meant the rail itself felt quite different. 👍

Sorry I meant that any light going thru that red bead of yours was filtered by your polarised glasses. Making it appear black.

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antse7en
1 hour ago, buze said:

Sorry I meant that any light going thru that red bead of yours was filtered by your polarised glasses. Making it appear black.

Interesting. Incidentally I’m shooting at the same place again tomorrow so I’ll experiment. 

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JDL

Quite normal that a red fibre optic is less bright in low light conditions.

Colour of lenses can also affect performance in certain conditions.

Would be nice if you can give an update after some experimenting.

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BIN

does anyone left eye shot with right handed have problem with close targets from left to right? like 15-20 yard close low corsser? 10-15 yard at your left side trap going away targets(targets going up or level or going down after released from trap).

i dont have any problem with crosser. i am shotting with two eyes open for 4 months now.

thinking getting this raill see if this will fix my problem.

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Hamster
12 hours ago, BIN said:

does anyone left eye shot with right handed have problem with close targets from left to right? like 15-20 yard close low corsser? 10-15 yard at your left side trap going away targets(targets going up or level or going down after released from trap).

i dont have any problem with crosser. i am shotting with two eyes open for 4 months now.

thinking getting this raill see if this will fix my problem.

Most such “problems” can be solved by altering your hold point, close targets tend to be and certainly look very fast so it’s important to pick your comfortable break point and not panic in taking the shot too quickly. Often holding a tad further out than you would for a slower/farther target can transform the difficulty level. 

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BIN
22 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Most such “problems” can be solved by altering your hold point, close targets tend to be and certainly look very fast so it’s important to pick your comfortable break point and not panic in taking the shot too quickly. Often holding a tad further out than you would for a slower/farther target can transform the difficulty level. 

i have tried all the methods and all the different gun hold, at the end its still not consistent. and i found i saw different sight picture about this type of targets, now i am try a new way, half closed my left eye, and i saw the same sight picture now. and hitting those targets more consistent. but i still want try this D rail see if they really a gamer change. the only thing is i only see positetive thoughts about this D rail. cant find any oppsite thoughs. 

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Westward
4 hours ago, BIN said:

i have tried all the methods and all the different gun hold, at the end its still not consistent.

If I'm reading it right, the target you're describing seems to be what's called quartering rather than crossing. You can trust what Hamster says and most instructors would agree with him that hold point is very important for these, particularly for right handed shooters when the target is from the left. Ben Husthwaite has a YouTube video on this which is worth watching.

I know nothing about the D Rail but I have heard that there are negative comments on social media, some claiming that it's nothing new, others saying it doesn't make much difference.

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BIN
10 hours ago, Westward said:

If I'm reading it right, the target you're describing seems to be what's called quartering rather than crossing. You can trust what Hamster says and most instructors would agree with him that hold point is very important for these, particularly for right handed shooters when the target is from the left. Ben Husthwaite has a YouTube video on this which is worth watching.

I know nothing about the D Rail but I have heard that there are negative comments on social media, some claiming that it's nothing new, others saying it doesn't make much difference.

yes. it is quartering targets. yestoday, i tried half close my left eye, and 3 repeates all centre hit the target and 3 sight picture i saw is same. of course gun hold is not too close the trap house. before half close i am only hit 2 out 5. and 5 sight pictures about 3 of them are different. that is not skill problem its about i saw something different my left eye taking over my vision. and create another sight picture. thats why i am asking if this BH D rail will get this problem fix.

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Rod M

Just looked into pricing... £50 or £100! This seems ridiculous.

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Charliedog
1 hour ago, Rod M said:

Just looked into pricing... £50 or £100! This seems ridiculous.

But you have a choice? (or 3)

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Rod M
59 minutes ago, Charliedog said:

But you have a choice? (or 3)

I'm not debating that. Simply stating the (obvious?) fact that at £50 for the plastic and £100 for the aluminium version, pricing seems very steep for what the product is and the other alternatives that seem to be available.

It may well be that the product is very effective for some and they would consider the money well spent. I just suspect that an identical result could be achieved for a fraction of the cost.

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Charliedog
1 hour ago, Rod M said:

I'm not debating that. Simply stating the (obvious?) fact that at £50 for the plastic and £100 for the aluminium version, pricing seems very steep for what the product is and the other alternatives that seem to be available.

It may well be that the product is very effective for some and they would consider the money well spent. I just suspect that an identical result could be achieved for a fraction of the cost.

I would beg to differ but were all different, thankfully i dont currently need one (hes got overheads you know)

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diver682
1 hour ago, Rod M said:

I'm not debating that. Simply stating the (obvious?) fact that at £50 for the plastic and £100 for the aluminium version, pricing seems very steep for what the product is and the other alternatives that seem to be available.

It may well be that the product is very effective for some and they would consider the money well spent. I just suspect that an identical result could be achieved for a fraction of the cost.

The rail works and there is not anything else on the market like it. Be using it for a while now and scores improving all the time, we'll worth the money 

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Salopian

 

Heh... this thing is nothing new, definitely not a ground braking invention. Meadow Industries has been selling their (way cheaper) Side-Blinder http://www.meadowindustries.com/sights_sb-1.html for years.

Diver 682,

 See above , which is where the idea was stolen from . been available for years at only $18 .

 

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diver682
33 minutes ago, Salopian said:

 

Heh... this thing is nothing new, definitely not a ground braking invention. Meadow Industries has been selling their (way cheaper) Side-Blinder http://www.meadowindustries.com/sights_sb-1.html for years.

Diver 682,

 See above , which is where the idea was stolen from . been available for years at only $18 .

 

Salopian, 

Its just your opinion, people will make there own mind up and I don't think you will have much influence over that   

 

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Sian

If you have a keen eye or just not very good at keeping still like me you can often find one on the ground of a shooting ground.   I could have picked up at least 8 to date.   It’s like anything some will love it, some will hate it but I’m tired of reading the bickering about whose is best and the utter rudeness that seems to be ever present.  I simply scroll on now.

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Lloyd

I have this same issue on teal. Took a while to figure it out but with a comment from an instructor and input from @willhewland and going back and checking the hypothesis and using a 3D printed part to mask the bead it sort of helps. I think the real issue is I need to train myself to consistently focus very hard on all presentations. Not just the long/fast ones. 


FYI FWIW  I did a little experiment. I got a quote from a very expensive supplier who could make a part such as this in aluminum in probably the most inefficient way. The price came out at £7.56 each. That’s without the Scotch 3M VHB acrylic tape , sans packaging, sans marketing, sans mark up. 
from experience I’d estimate a cheaper supplier I know would charge £2.50ea while still being very inefficient. 
increase the volume from 50 at a time to say 5000, maximise efficiency and my guess is the cost would come down to a quid. 
 

min a nutshell, you can sell on value or sell on price and in both ways the input cost matter. 
 

so be it £100 or $18, it all stacks up. 

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Salopian

Sian,

 Well said , it just goes to show how gullible we shooters are , everyone searching for the 'magic dot'.

Diver , You are correct I do not wish to influence anyone , they will make their minds up as you have said , and they will waste shedloads of money on gadgets that are hyped up to be fantastic , but actually masking the real cause .

But how do you reconcile £50 or £100 for a gadget that is not new , not revolutionary and as been available for years at a cost of $18 US  or as Lloyd said available for less than £1 0ff a 3D printer ?

Perhaps we should all flock to Nick Penn at considerable cost to shoot with both eyes open .

Or listen to Hamster who's advice is free and freely given.😄😄😄

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Hamster

The gadget is not new or revolutionary, it has been offered in different guises for decades, Ben’s is his interpretation of it and why not if he can charge people a oner ! 

In principal I believe it is a very good route into helping many cross shouldered shooters improve their game but as with all things it isn’t for everyone. I’ve no axe to grind with anyone but when I’ve inspected this particular design I thought it to be too delicate looking and somewhat too big of a blob. Had I been asked to draw potential designs I’d have made sure the (dearer one at least) had provisions for tiny screws to secure it onto the rib AFTER a suitable trial period by the owner, I’d have also made it somewhat smaller; clearly this would have avoided the unintended losses referred to by Sian (and she is by no means the first to have mentioned it). 

There is a specialist rib company stateside who manufacture standard as well as custom made add on ribs which rather cleverly integrate the bead (or preferably a cm long plastic small rectangle, a la original Beretta 682 beads) inside a groove made into the rib. In effect what happens is that by sinking the bead into this groove the shoulders (meaning the rib) act as the “blinder” which has the advantage of being ambidextrous as well as potentially micro adjustable up and down to suit the shooters mounting idiosyncrasies. They also look completely normal with nothing sticking out and highly unlikely to sustain damage, an important consideration for the numerous times a competition gun gets put in and out of a gun bag. I’m sure one of our American forum members can provide a link. 

When I’m King or win the lottery, I shall design a supergun one of whose features shall be just such a rib/bead design but I shall make sure that I pay homage to the fact it wasn’t my invention. 

1 hour ago, Salopian said:

Sian,

 Well said , it just goes to show how gullible we shooters are , everyone searching for the 'magic dot'.

Diver , You are correct I do not wish to influence anyone , they will make their minds up as you have said , and they will waste shedloads of money on gadgets that are hyped up to be fantastic , but actually masking the real cause .

But how do you reconcile £50 or £100 for a gadget that is not new , not revolutionary and as been available for years at a cost of $18 US  or as Lloyd said available for less than £1 0ff a 3D printer ?

Or listen to Hamster who's advice is free and freely given.😄😄😄

When I wrote that essay I made sure I repeated the advice that mine was simply one of four potential cures for cross handedness, no one method or gadget can be effective for everyone, I also repeatedly mentioned that mine is simply the “close the master eye just before shooting” method but which has been refined and taken one step further into its ultimate conclusion. 

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Lloyd

@Hamster  I have tried the closing one eye method. It didn’t help me. I think it interferes too much with my concentration.
Concentrating hard on the clay (or learning to) I feel is the proper fix for me. 
Maybe if I close both eyes I’ll have more success? 🤔

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timps

I have written a few long posts on the subject years ago on PW and shotgunworld.

Unfortunately you have to be careful with coaches on this subject, you get a lot of fantastic shots / coaches / unnamed Olympians 🙄commenting on eye dominance but they have never suffered from cross dominance, they can smash clays for fun & teach most how to do it, but don’t understand the difficulty of cross dominance as they don’t see it through your eyes. I also get people who have never suffered from it telling people how it affects me, which I find amusing.

Everything usually works to a point, it tends to improve your shooting over doing nothing. As to the best method / gizmo it’s subjective, each shooter reacts differently to each method, all cross dominance is not the same. Some are strongly dominant in one eye, some switch as the brain chooses what it perceives is the better picture of the target.  I have come to the conclusion training and routines work best for me, I don’t claim to be a world champion or even a good shot but I have hit in the 90’s ex 100 at registered shoots so it seems to work for me.

It has also been proven the static test such as looking through a hole on a CD etc. used to identify eye dominance suffers from precision and bias issues. Even if it does correctly identify dominance this does not always replicate what happens when you mount a gun.

Herein lies the problem, you have to find out for yourself by trial and error what works for you.

Would I have tried this back in the day for £100, answer nope I’d have made my own with an old easy hit and a Stanley knife,  but if it works for you then fair play it's worth it.

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