Is a semi too hard to use??? (Sporting clays)

Hi All. 

My lad likes shooting but has a dodgy shoulder and after 50+ sporting clays it starts to cause pain etc. 

Will using a semi auto reduce recoil impact and help his shoulder please? And if so any ideas on a budget 12g just for sporting use?

TIA

John. 

I can't speak for recoil on a semis, having never shot any, however, a lighter load cartridge will make a big difference to recoil. Plenty of reasonably priced, 21g and 24g loads. No need to fully open the can of worms on the advantages of various loads, but I shoot the odd 21g cartridge of my wife's and don't notice any difference in the quality of breaks compared to my usual 28g. There is a world of difference in recoil, however.

John Griff said:

Hi All. 

My lad likes shooting but has a dodgy shoulder and after 50+ sporting clays it starts to cause pain etc. 

Will using a semi auto reduce recoil impact and help his shoulder please? And if so any ideas on a budget 12g just for sporting use?

TIA

John. 

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How big is your lad ? When you say dodgy shoulder is there a long standing medical problem or the simple fact that he feels pain after a session ? What exact gun (preferably stating the weight) is he currently using, also need to know what cartridges ? What realistic budget do you have ? How often does he intend to shoot, as in 100 bird comps every week or a 50 birder once or twice a month ? 

I suffer from a knackered right shoulder,  made worse by a failed operation. As a result I use a Beretta 303 semi auto in 12 bore and 24 gram cartridges. I do also still use a Browning 725, but again with 24 gram cartridges. It is essential that whatever gun you use, it has a degree of 'fit'. A friend has just bought a used Beretta O/U which is fitted with a 25mm recoil pad, he has used it twice and has suffered bruising to his upper arm as a result of the stock being too long. I changed the recoil pad for a 12mm one last week, problem sorted. If you are looking for a good cheap auto then look at the Armsan, but try to get the wood version if possible, it makes altering the length of pull easier. Stick an I/C choke in it and get some 24 gram cartridges, if after all of that, there is a recoil issue then perhaps a smaller gauge gun is the possible answer. 

P.S.  If using an auto for clays then be prepared for some totally unjustified criticism from SOME of the other shooters. They will go on about how unsafe an auto is and how they should be banned or was it binned. I just simply remind them that in 17 years of running a shooting ground, I had the misfortune to witness several .er.................accidental discharges,  thankfully all but one were downrange,  but NONE ever involved an auto  !   I believe that the adverse comments regarding auto's makes their users far more careful.

I would second the Beretta 302/3, or if budgets allow a 391 Urika, which I have.

They will easily cycle 24 g cartridges, and if you choose something gentle like a Fiocchi fblack, that should help too.

Hamster said:

How big is your lad ? When you say dodgy shoulder is there a long standing medical problem or the simple fact that he feels pain after a session ? What exact gun (preferably stating the weight) is he currently using, also need to know what cartridges ? What realistic budget do you have ? How often does he intend to shoot, as in 100 bird comps every week or a 50 birder once or twice a month ? 

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He’s 6’2” and a solid lad. He buggered it up last armistice day. He’s an RAF cadet and had to perform several hundred salutes, which appears to have damaged the rotator cuff. He’s generally ok shooting, but it’s normally past 40 shots it starts giving him grief. He doesn’t shoot that much, maybe twice a month max at the minute. Usually 50 or 60 bird sporting and with a beretta 686. Budget less than £450 if possible, used is a definite option . 

At over 6' I do not think that too long a stock is an issue, in fact maybe the opposite. Too short a stock can affect felt recoil. I still say that the Armsan auto is worth a look, at under £400 new (Guntrader). One of my shooting friends has one and he has put down to 21 gram cartridges through it without any problems. The Beretta Mobil chokes will fit it too. 

John Griff said:

He’s 6’2” and a solid lad. He buggered it up last armistice day. He’s an RAF cadet and had to perform several hundred salutes, which appears to have damaged the rotator cuff. He’s generally ok shooting, but it’s normally past 40 shots it starts giving him grief. He doesn’t shoot that much, maybe twice a month max at the minute. Usually 50 or 60 bird sporting and with a beretta 686. Budget less than £450 if possible, used is a definite option . 

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Given the budget and the frequency of his shooting the best option would be to get a 2nd hand Remington 1100 or a Beretta 303, the latter will usually cycle 24g loads which are definitely worth considering, it's possible to find the odd used semi that has a recoil reducer fitted but they tend to be a little dearer. 

I'd have thought he also needs to seek some medical advice on dealing with this injury long term in any case as he's so young. 

Another route .  21 gm training cartridges , it won’t make a jot of difference to a fun shooter banging off 100 a month . Something like Eley First Select . Coupled with a 7 or 7 1/2 lb gun he will not get anything that feels more pleasant to shoot. Personally I think Autos have all the handling characteristics of a canoe paddle . Try some through the 686 . Also look out for the sorbothane or gel shoulder protectors which he can wear under his jumper . Beretta do a decent range I think ,. 

Hamster said:

Given the budget and the frequency of his shooting the best option would be to get a 2nd hand Remington 1100 or a Beretta 303, the latter will usually cycle 24g loads which are definitely worth considering, it's possible to find the odd used semi that has a recoil reducer fitted but they tend to be a little dearer. 

I'd have thought he also needs to seek some medical advice on dealing with this injury long term in any case as he's so young. 

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Cheers Hammy. He’s been to physio etc, does just seem to flare up only when shooting a shotgun. Uses live fire rifles without issue. Just seen a beretta 303 for sale for £300. Been reading loads about them and seem very well respected, may just invest as a back up anyway?

westley said:

At over 6' I do not think that too long a stock is an issue, in fact maybe the opposite. Too short a stock can affect felt recoil. I still say that the Armsan auto is worth a look, at under £400 new (Guntrader). One of my shooting friends has one and he has put down to 21 gram cartridges through it without any problems. The Beretta Mobil chokes will fit it too. 

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Cheers Westley. I’ll look into that

Fiocchi TT1 cartridges in 21g flavour can be bought for about £190ish (William Evans at Bisley are anyway) if budget is a thought. I've fired them and they were fine compared with the 28g and comfy recoil, but I don't fire loads, every other week or so, so not ultra serious.

By the way. Do NOT google the title of this thread. You won’t get the answer you’re looking for..

A short stock will not affect perceived recoil unless it is so short that the thumb/nose interface is bothersome, but in my experience down-pitch will.  I buzz my stocks for +/-1" or less.  It's not a myth that autos shoot softer either just a simple fact.  I would say that the 303 and it's variants are a better path than an 1100.  I've used both and know a number of people who use/used both as well and the 303 is just way easier to deal with.  And of course the Beretta choke tubes are a big plus.

JMO of course

Personally I’d search long  and hard for an AL391 Beretta. They can be had for less than £500 and are a great gun to shoot with very responsive trigger pulls. Ignore the stupid comments from the o/u brigade as semis always provide me its the grin factor and I’ve got both types sitting in the cabinet. 

Long AND hard now??

Hamster said:

Given the budget and the frequency of his shooting the best option would be to get a 2nd hand Remington 1100 or a Beretta 303, the latter will usually cycle 24g loads which are definitely worth considering, it's possible to find the odd used semi that has a recoil reducer fitted but they tend to be a little dearer. 

I'd have thought he also needs to seek some medical advice on dealing with this injury long term in any case as he's so young. 

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Beretta 390 a lot more expensive than the 303??

El Spavo said:

Long AND hard now??

Beretta 390 a lot more expensive than the 303??

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Any Beretta within the budget would be OK but the 302/3 tend to be a bit cheaper. 

El Spavo said:

Long AND hard now??

Beretta 390 a lot more expensive than the 303??

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They tend to be priced on condition. I would say only £25 - £50 more for a A390. The difference is that the 390 is 3" chambered and has a gas regulator valve for the larger wildfowling type loads.  There's no advantage of one over the other for clays though .  Buy on condition. 

A few years ago, my wife was becoming more recoil shy to the point that she was starting with the pain halfway through a round of DTL. The gun was fitted with a Kick eez pad and after a little research, I bought an Isis X pad..............................NO more pain...................EVER. The best £50 I have spent. The gun was sold and I removed the pad and loaned it to an old chap who owned a Winchester 101 which had a kick like a Blackpool donkey, after fitting the pad, complete comfort. He bought his own and I now have it on my pigeon gun as it was just sitting in the drawer doing nothing.

Worth a look and perhaps linked to some quality 24gr cartridges, his pain could well be a thing of the past.

Phil

philpot said:

who owned a Winchester 101 which had a kick like a Blackpool donkey,

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A common observation.  I got one for my wife and it gave her a black eye.  I told her she was just not mounting the gun properly and to demonstrate I I shot it ..................... two carts.  Slapped the living fook outta me.  Sold it that day to a gent that loved it.  Go figger.  Tho I never checked it I suspect that they had excessive downpitch since I've learned from other guns what that can do.

just a thot