Master Eye issues and remedies - both eyes open

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Hamster

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
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This is a very long read but I feel it will be helpful to people who are cross dominant : 

[SIZE=10pt]There's been a few posts regarding Master Eye issues and products meant for helping those[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]affected so I thought it might be helpful for some to hear of my experiences and the path I [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]chose to combat it. Firstly let me categorically state that I am not against or averse to anyone[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]using any number of gadgets or techniques to correct this, there are a number of perfectly[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]sensible tools and methods that can be employed and it appears we're shortly to witness the [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]launch of a new system developed by Ben Husthwaite.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]No one cure suits all but what I am prepared to say is that contrary to conventional advice[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]from writers on the subject there are potentially more "organic" ways around this issue than [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]the 3 most commonly suggested. It's important that we cover these and in no particular order [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]they are :[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1) Learning to shoot from your master eye shoulder - possibly the most sensible route [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]particularly if you're new to guns and have yet to develop much if any real muscle memory.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Having used air guns from a very young age I didn't want to shoot from my left shoulder.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]2) Learning to shoot from your favoured shoulder (opposite to your master eye) but perfecting[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]the habit of closing the master eye just before firing - perfectly doable if somewhat flawed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]3) Learning to use a cross-over stock - absolute non starter in any meaningful sense.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Then we have several physical objects which can be utilised such as beads which glow and [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]are highly visible to the aiming eye (i.e, non master eye) but which can't be seen with the [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]non aiming (i.e, master eye) once the gun is shouldered, these can have their uses and [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]devotees but again probably not the best way forward particularly if you have fairly high [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]ambitions. The bigger/longer highglow beads can be rather distracting in themselves and[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]they can bend out of shape in hot weather, they can even affect [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]POI[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] (up and down) if [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]they're too big of a blob ! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]More subtle versions of this approach have been tried by partially sinking the bead within [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]the rib, this can be an excellent thing if used in conjunction with other practices.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Opaque stick-on pads for glasses are another excellent way of creating a blind spot for[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]your master eye so that it is less likely to take over during the final stages of the firing [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]cycle, a dab of vaseline on the right part of your glasses can achieve much the same [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]thing albeit temporarily - my only real objection to these is that they are clearly no good [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]when you're shooting minus your glasses such as may be the case out in the field. The [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]plus with this method is that your overall awareness and vision of the target remains [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]largely uninterupted (not the case with closing ones master eye).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]I'm also aware of a system which creates a visible tiny marker on the "true barrel" (but [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]not visible to the offending master eye barrel) and is meant to assist you in learning to [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]address the target with the correct barrel, again why not, sounds perfectly plausible and I [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]know of rather excellent shooters who use the system and truth be told my own method is [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]rather similar in that it simply (does away with even that tiny marker). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Whether I've missed any potential cures on the market is irrelevant because the main [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]purpose of this admittedly long essay is to expand and explain why and how I managed [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]to ignore all (and only) suggested routes of eradicating this issue and came up with a more [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]than adequate answer which relies on nothing materially being attached to ones barrels[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]but instead simply training to keep both eyes open from my favoured shoulder opposite[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]my master eye. Hopefully the next time this subject comes up and someone asks me to [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]explain what I mean they can quickly be directed to the long, decipherable version of me [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]just saying "I use my right eye" to do the shooting. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]To grasp the reasons why master eye issues are so important we first need to understand[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]why it can and will cause misses. First things first, before saying pull and when you address[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]the path of the clay with the gun just out of your shoulder and with your eyes resting at the [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]target area........................................you will be aware of two sets of barrels beneath [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]your eye line, this is perfectly normal, the straight barrel immediately beneath your non[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]master eye (right eye in my case) is the "correct" barrel, it is the one that actually spits[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]out the pellets, the one slightly to the right (or left) and with a very slight (curve) towards [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]the correct barrel is the non shooting barrel which you must train to ignore. In many ways[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]this is fairly easy to do with a bit of practice because all shooting is learned behaviour, [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]you learn to stand a certain way, you learn to lean into the shot, you learn sight pictures,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]you learn tempo, learn controlled movement, learn to finish the shot (not stopping the gun)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]why on earth shouldn't you be able to learn using the "correct" barrel as the reference point?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]When tracking a target with both your eyes the brain, [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]hands and body co-ordinate with one another to calculate the speed, angle and distance[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]of the object and relay that information back to allow you to place the shot at the appropriate [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]distance (usually in front but often below too) ahead of the target, we know that TWO eyes[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]open at all times is the most ideal state of affairs, remember you may well be asked to [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]shoot at two different targets very quickly with little transition time to open and close your [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]master eye in between, keeping it closed is doable but then you're not maximising your [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]potential physical armaments. It's also the case that most master eyes are the stronger [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt](not always) of the two, why would you want to use the less able/focused eye to act all [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]alone !? By keeping both eyes open at all times you avail yourself of your best possible vision [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]clarity, not to mention maximising the brains ability to make tiny, more accurate calculations [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]of angles and speeds etc,. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Misses occur when the master eye "pulls" your aim from the "correct" (meaning the [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]barrel that is directly under your aiming, non master eye) and involuntarily forces you to[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]use the "untrue" barrel as the reference point towards the target. This can cause misses[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]ranging from a foot or two to one side or the other of simple close incomers to several feet [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]in cases of more distant, angled presentations. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Yes I accept that many superb shots close one eye just before firing but my question is this,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]when do you close one eye ? How about a long Teal having to be shot on the way down, you [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]know the ones we all can't help but shoot at several different descent points, do you close[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]your eye when the target has leveled out, mid way or just before firing regardless ? If the [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]answer is just before firing then I'm afraid you're more than half way (probably 95%) through[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]shooting my method anyway, all I've done is dial out that final nano second ! Put it this way[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]by the time you're ready to pull the trigger the barrels are as good as done and in the right[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]place anyway, there is no way that you'd have time to react and correct the path of the barrel[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]if you were to find the master eye had taken over, the only way you could react is if you [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]close the master eye fairly early in the acquisiton/tracking process in which case as mentioned[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]you're denying yourself the fruits of two eyed vision/clarity.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Part 2 :[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Ahh but what if in the heat of the moment
___________________________________[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Yes that's a perfectly legitimate question, what if in the heat of the moment you suddenly fail
to correctly carry out the process and allow the dominant eye to take over ? Well then a miss
will probably (though by no means always as I'll explain later) be your reward.
You see ALL MECHANICAL ACTIONS THAT TAKE PLACE TO EXECUTE A SHOT ARE IN
TOTALITY A "PROCESS" -  if you fail to correctly execute imparting lead to a moving target 
then a miss will be the result, you may well have pulverised your first 3 targets in a sequence
but then suddenly simply fail to adhere to the "process" and under or over lead a given target,
the learned behaviour of using the non dominant eye to do the shooting is a PROCESS and 
no different to any one of two dozen different learned processes we have to go through every 
time we shoot or do anything for that matter that requires the collaboration of the body's 
various nervous systems. 
When you first start shooting you're told you have to learn to give forward allowance to most 
moving targets and that you need to do so with a moving gun i.e, learn to fire without 
stopping or checking lead. You do this without questioning it because it has proved that over
time it will bring results, in simple terms you persevere and you perfect (loose term) the art.
When you come up against the quandry of Master Eye, assuming it even affects you, authors
with moustaches and double barrel names as well as no end of other perfectly knowledgable
and well informed people will tell you your choices are limited to those already discussed
above. You don't try or persevere because you have been conditioned to believe it's not
possible. It IS possible because I have done it since at least 1987 and I have met people 
who appeared to do likewise, in fact I can prove that many of the people who close their 
master eye (just before) actually firing must in effect be shooting this way ! You simply need
to practice the process to its logical conclusion. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Ahh but if it works how come we hadn't heard of it before
_______________________________________________[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Again perfectly plausible question but the answer is we simply don't know how many people 
deliberately or inadvertently have either taught themselves to shoot successfully this way or
simply imprinted the process into their routine without conscious thought. 
Nobody has ever carried out a world wide poll to ask master eye affectees how or why they 
shoot the way they do, who knows how Dave in Canada or Vladimir in Russia EXACTLY
executes his moving target routine, we've never asked a large enough sample the right 
questions, we've simply blindly accepted conventional advice and assumed there are no other
available "cures".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]OK I'm bored, so how do you actually do this, what is the "process"
________________________________________________________[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]You need the following in no particular order of importance :[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]1) You must understand the problems that cross shoulder, master eye issues cause,
(hence why I have made this so detailed) without that you won't fully be able to learn the 
skill/routine of combatting it. Just like politics if you don't understand or acknowledge the 
problem you won't solve it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]2) You need to look at the target and not the bead or rib - logical and undeniable advice
in all cases anyway, if you divert your eyes towards the bead/rib all sorts of wrongs occur
which are outside the scope of this subject but you need to develop the skill to look at 
the target or its general area (whilst being aware of the existence and placement) of the 
barrel(s) only one of which is real.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]3) You need a slightly raised rib sight picture - this is an interesting subject all onto itself
and many high profile people subscribe to the view that it helps period, i.e, it's helpful even
to non master eye affectees. If you accept that in order to hit a moving object effectively and 
consistently you must have muzzle to target "awareness", you need to know where your 
correct barrel is throughout the process of executing the shot, with a lo rib set up too often
the master eye is drawn to the (curved) blur of the barrel not doing the actual firing. Don't
go mental with the rib height because too much is as bad as too little as it can
cause difficulties in finding the line of the bird which is in my view at least as if not more 
important than the lead. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]4) Start off on a very simple going away clay, by all means throw it somewhat angled 
upwards if doing so means less distractions from shrubs or trees. As I have already 
mentioned when adressing the clay (with the gun in or out of your shoulder) you will be aware 
of two barrels, the one immediately under your shooting (non dominant) eye is the "correct" 
one, call for the clay and try your best to use that eye to line up the shot and fire. If it helps 
break the clay once or twice with a closed eye but eventually break it without closing your 
master eye. Unless your innate neurological skills are at rock bottom you will break the clay 
no problem. Belief is the key to doing anything well, I can't even recall going through much 
if any actual hardship to learn the process but assuming you find it a little harder to do in 
practice than what it sounds like on paper then simply remember what I said about the power 
of practice and perseverance. The first time you hold a snooker cue feels strange as does
trying to change gear in a left hand drive car. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]5) Believe, persevere and practice - don't be put off by misses because they happen
for tons of reasons, not just cross eye dominance, after a while you will find keeping
the eye open becomes more and more natural to the point of the process getting imprinted 
and memorised by your subconscious. I don't hear the tinitus noise in my left ear unless
I think about it, you will reach the stage when you won't think about your master eye from 
month to month if not longer, I almost never do. All mechanical actions are a learned
"process". As your confidence grows you will start to use the same process on more 
technical and challenging stuff. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]I believe that if we were to collate accurate detailed answers from people who successfully 
shut their dominant eye just before shooting we would come to the conclusion that unless
they shut that eye rather early in the mounting/tracking process (which is bad news) then
they have all but adopted the both eyes open process without consciously acknowledging
it. Think about it, if I (as a right shouldered left master eye) shooter track a 30 yard L to R 
crossing bird with the master eye and then in the final nano second shut my dominant eye 
my muzzle would be pointing several feet above and behind the target, I'd have no chance 
of correcting or avoinding the inevitable miss, that's why I believe many are already using this
"process" without allowing themselves the liberty of the final phase. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Is the process failsafe and impossible to trick, of course not, any process is only as good 
as the practitioners imput and "application". People who shoot well can almost invariably
be termed somewhat robotic, they collect track and break the clay in almost exactly the 
same square foot in the sky, they do this because repetition of the previous shots process 
is aided by the successful mental image brought about by the smashed clay. If you hang on 
to a target too long and commit the cardinal sin of diverting your gaze from the target (or at 
the very least target V barrel sight picture out beyond) it is possible that your master eye gets 
drawn to the wrong eye resulting in a miss IF you stop the gun. As promised under the 
"Ahh but" segment now is the time to mention that often, even in such cases where the 
process appearsto have failed, if you keep faith and FINISH the shot, the clay will more often 
than not break because as I have already alluded, your correct barrel would already be all but 
done and in the right place. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Hamid Hajilou aka Hamster[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]All intellectual rights to the above essay/article are reserved, please do not alter, re-word
or re-present without credit either partially or as a whole, do not quote partially or as a whole 
on non UK based forums without asking. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]

 
A well written piece Hamster, thanks.

Some people, myself included are actually cross-dominant so have no master eye.   Proven in a high-street opticians chair, and then in the most enlightening three hours I've experienced for quite some time with Ed Lyons - sometimes found here.   So during an eye test the dominance will switch and I'll have no control over it, so frustrating.

We humans, well most of us anyway,  have two eyes and we assume that we have truly stereoscopic vision when in fact the brain gets most of the visual data from one eye (the master eye) and then supplements it with data from the other - to assist judging distance and speed for example.

Whilst I knew before I went to see Ed Lyons that I was cross dominant and therefore knew I had to close an eye just before taking the shot it was a surprise for both of us that my brain, when robbed of the data from the left eye (I shoot out of my right shoulder) would take 3 seconds or more to grasp the fact that there was no data incoming with the result that some targets, especially right to left quartering crossers as it happened would sometimes for a brief instant look really 'weird' and I'd more than likely miss.

The solution has been patches on the left glasses lens though I find they actually give my a headache - maybe the brain, denied of proper vision, has a grumble.

 
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Great write up, appreciate the time and effort into this. I'm left eye dominant right handed shooter, tried the easy hit style bead with no real success, best solution I've found (bearing in mind I'm only shooting clay so always have them on) is the slightest patch on left lense of my glasses...and a very hard focus on the clay.

I can still occasionally catch myself out if I don't focus enough on the target, but the lense patch made a huge difference to my shooting along with a good coach.

 
A well written piece Hamster, thanks.

Some people, myself included are actually cross-dominant so have no master eye.   Proven in a high-street opticians chair, and then in the most enlightening three hours I've experienced for quite some time with Ed Lyons - sometimes found here.   So during an eye test the dominance will switch and I'll have no control over it, so frustrating.

We humans, well most of us anyway,  have two eyes and we assume that we have truly stereoscopic vision when in fact the brain gets most of the visual data from one eye (the master eye) and then supplements it with data from the other - to assist judging distance and speed for example.

Whilst I knew before I went to see Ed Lyons that I was cross dominant and therefore knew I had to close an eye just before taking the shot it was a surprise for both of us that my brain, when robbed of the data from the left eye (I shoot out of my right shoulder) would take 3 seconds or more to grasp the fact that there was no data incoming with the result that some targets, especially right to left quartering crossers as it happened would sometimes for a brief instant look really 'weird' and I'd more than likely miss.

The solution has been patches on the left glasses lens though I find they actually give my a headache - maybe the brain, denied of proper vision, has a grumble.
I've always considered myself right eye dominant but on closer targets where you need to shoot straight at or within a clay in-front I can on some days miss some or all of the presentation. Here's what I described to Ed Lyons when I was getting some RE XLW prescription inserts made, It sounds quite similar to you.

"Only problem I have is not related to the glasses. I sometimes think my eye focus jumps and for a split second seem to loose the clay and miss!!!! I suspect this when I'm not focusing hard on the clay and focus comes back to the gun. Closer targets seem to be where it happens." 

I've just had a session with Ben and asked him to look at two presentations that needed the bead on the clay to break them, a teal and a quartering rabbit/squirrel with no speed on it. I've shot two recent shoots and I've dropped a ridicules amount on the unmissable stuff. He identified I was shooting up the left of the teal even though I thought the bead was on the clay and in-front of the right to left rabbit, again I though the bead was on the clay.

I see no barrel jump when this happens and unlike Hamster who sounds very left eye dominant, I don't see two barrels as you describe. I also find that my issue can kick in halfway through a stand or I can go a period of time shooting well and then go out and think I'm putting the bead in the right place only to miss. 

I was fortunate enough to shoot the rest of the session with Ben using a prototype Eye Dominance Rail. I didn't miss either of these targets again and no changes were made to my technique as he was happy with what I was doing. I put a review on his Facebook page for the product he is launching.

I've also been told of a Todd Bender film where he talks about eye dominance and it's ability to shift mid round without any indication to the shooter.

 
I've always considered myself right eye dominant but on closer targets where you need to shoot straight at or within a clay in-front I can on some days miss some or all of the presentation. Here's what I described to Ed Lyons when I was getting some RE XLW prescription inserts made, It sounds quite similar to you.

"Only problem I have is not related to the glasses. I sometimes think my eye focus jumps and for a split second seem to loose the clay and miss!!!! I suspect this when I'm not focusing hard on the clay and focus comes back to the gun. Closer targets seem to be where it happens." 

I've just had a session with Ben and asked him to look at two presentations that needed the bead on the clay to break them, a teal and a quartering rabbit/squirrel with no speed on it. I've shot two recent shoots and I've dropped a ridicules amount on the unmissable stuff. He identified I was shooting up the left of the teal even though I thought the bead was on the clay and in-front of the right to left rabbit, again I though the bead was on the clay.

I see no barrel jump when this happens and unlike Hamster who sounds very left eye dominant, I don't see two barrels as you describe. I also find that my issue can kick in halfway through a stand or I can go a period of time shooting well and then go out and think I'm putting the bead in the right place only to miss. 

I was fortunate enough to shoot the rest of the session with Ben using a prototype Eye Dominance Rail. I didn't miss either of these targets again and no changes were made to my technique as he was happy with what I was doing. I put a review on his Facebook page for the product he is launching.

I've also been told of a Todd Bender film where he talks about eye dominance and it's ability to shift mid round without any indication to the shooter.
It sounds to me as if your anticipating the shot  shutting your eyes when you pull the trigger rather than an eye dominance issue.  

 
I've always considered myself right eye dominant but on closer targets where you need to shoot straight at or within a clay in-front I can on some days miss some or all of the presentation. Here's what I described to Ed Lyons when I was getting some RE XLW prescription inserts made, It sounds quite similar to you.

"Only problem I have is not related to the glasses. I sometimes think my eye focus jumps and for a split second seem to loose the clay and miss!!!! I suspect this when I'm not focusing hard on the clay and focus comes back to the gun. Closer targets seem to be where it happens." 

I've just had a session with Ben and asked him to look at two presentations that needed the bead on the clay to break them, a teal and a quartering rabbit/squirrel with no speed on it. I've shot two recent shoots and I've dropped a ridicules amount on the unmissable stuff. He identified I was shooting up the left of the teal even though I thought the bead was on the clay and in-front of the right to left rabbit, again I though the bead was on the clay.

I see no barrel jump when this happens and unlike Hamster who sounds very left eye dominant, I don't see two barrels as you describe. I also find that my issue can kick in halfway through a stand or I can go a period of time shooting well and then go out and think I'm putting the bead in the right place only to miss. 

I was fortunate enough to shoot the rest of the session with Ben using a prototype Eye Dominance Rail. I didn't miss either of these targets again and no changes were made to my technique as he was happy with what I was doing. I put a review on his Facebook page for the product he is launching.

I've also been told of a Todd Bender film where he talks about eye dominance and it's ability to shift mid round without any indication to the shooter.
Not only is it not unusual but positively normal for close quartering rabbits to be missed in front, this affects everyone with or without eye dom issues, it is one of the hardest faults to rectify whilst in the stand, various "cures" exist including shooting behind the clay. :)  

It's normal to see two barrels, it is the very reason after all why we miss ! If you're not seeing (rather better described as being partially aware of) two barrels it's because your focus is too close to your outstretched finger or gun. 

Misses half way round or towards the end of a stand can and do occur for dozens of reasons, it's important to fully understand the mechanics and not necessarily always attribute them to eye dom. 

 
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It sounds to me as if your anticipating the shot  shutting your eyes when you pull the trigger rather than an eye dominance issue.  
Are you saying I'm closing both eyes when I take the shot? Every shot I take is anticipated so why would I close my eyes at the very point I'm looking at the clay with the clay to bead relationship very clear to me.

 
Very well written piece. Ive been shooting for four years and was told i was left eye dominant and i should close my left eye. So i have always tracked the target with both eyes and then closed before taking the shot. I felt i wasnt shooting to my potential most times. And i felt it was the end of the shot giving me most my misses. I reckon when i closed my eye because i cut the information to my brain the gun slowed and i missed behind. I tryed both eyes a few times and as soon as i missed i went back to my usal process. About a month ago i tryed both eyes on simple targets in practice and had sucess. So i decided to fully commit even in competition. My scores went down by about 10 to 15 clays for the first few shoots. Everytime i missed i thought must be eye dominace. It wasnt tho it was just low confidence and not trusting myself. Now my confidence is back and i have no doubt that as long as my setup is right and i keep my eyes on that clay then its dead bird. 

 
Not only is it not unusual but positively normal for close quartering rabbits to be missed in front, this affects everyone with or without eye dom issues, it is one of the hardest faults to rectify whilst in the stand, various "cures" exist including shooting behind the clay. :)  

It's normal to see two barrels, it is the very reason after all why we miss ! If you're not seeing (rather better described as being partially aware of) two barrels it's because your focus is too close to your outstretched finger or gun. 

Misses half way round or towards the end of a stand can and do occur for dozens of reasons, it's important to fully understand the mechanics and not necessarily always attribute them to eye dom. 
I was missing in front when the bead was on the rear edge of the clay.

I don't understand the following "If you're not seeing (rather better described as being partially aware of) two barrels it's because your focus is too close to your outstretched finger or gun." My focus is way out in-front of the gun. I see the clay, and have a very clear image of the white bead. I see the clay - bead relationship, others say they don't. I don't see two barrels though.

 
I was missing in front when the bead was on the rear edge of the clay.

I don't understand the following "If you're not seeing (rather better described as being partially aware of) two barrels it's because your focus is too close to your outstretched finger or gun." My focus is way out in-front of the gun. I see the clay, and have a very clear image of the white bead. I see the clay - bead relationship, others say they don't. I don't see two barrels though.
Single objects that are closer than your minimum focussing distance will appear as 2 images. Hold a pencil vertical at arms length and bring it slowly back toward your face. As it gets close you will see 2 pencils simply because there's a gap between your eyes and your brain can no longer resolve the 2 sets of visual data into a single image. The brain is also very clever at "not seeing" things which are or minimal importance such as the barrels when you're focussed on the clay. Most newcomers really do see 2 barrels regardless of dominance, but after a while, although the image of 2 barrels is still there, the brain just "forgets" to register it as 2 barrels.

In the same way, very few people see the bead or use it to reference the shot placement even though it's obviously in the field of view.

 
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In the same way, very few people see the bead or use it to reference the shot placement even though it's obviously in the field of view.
I'm always aware of the bead, (although I don't focus on it,) I use it as a reference for shot placement every time I shoot. Try a gun with the bead removed, it is totally unnatural.

Everyone with both eyes open will see two barrels, it's just that the dominant eye makes you more aware of the correct image and less aware of the wrong image, that's what eye dominance is all about.

 
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Try a gun with the bead removed, it is totally unnatural.
I have, and didn't notice anything different. I would suspect you're in a minority if you use the bead rather than the barrels to place your shot.

 it's just that the dominant eye makes you more aware of the correct image and less aware of the wrong image, that's what eye dominance is all about.
Hmmm. Not really.

The dominant eye makes one barrel image stronger but not necessarily the correct one because in the case of cross dominance it makes the wrong one stronger. That's what Hamster's write up is all about.

 
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I'm always aware of the bead, (although I don't focus on it,) I use it as a reference for shot placement every time I shoot. Try a gun with the bead removed, it is totally unnatural.

Everyone with both eyes open will see two barrels, it's just that the dominant eye makes you more aware of the correct image and less aware of the wrong image, that's what eye dominance is all about.
I'm with you Martin, although my focus is on the clay I have a very clear picture of the bead. 

I have to work hard to see two barrels and I need to do this by bringing my focus back to the gun. If I was to do this while shooting my eyes would have to jump backwards and forwards.

 
Good post Hamid .

Now I see that a few are offering devices to supposedly cure all these sight afflictions ?

 
I have, and didn't notice anything different. I would suspect you're in a minority if you use the bead rather than the barrels to place your shot.

Hmmm. Not really.

The dominant eye makes one barrel image stronger but not necessarily the correct one because in the case of cross dominance it makes the wrong one stronger. That's what Hamster's write up is all about.
OK, I see the post is about cross eye dominance and this is not something I have any personal knowledge of so perhaps I should have kept schtum. Cross dominant people may have their own issues with sight picture. I was talking for myself as a right handed, right eye dominant shooter - I'm probably one of the lucky majority of shooters who see a stronger image of the "correct" barrel and bead, which tells me where the gun is pointing.

I could see the "wrong" image if I stopped to think about it but I'm never aware of it during shooting. I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong it's just what I see naturally.

I too have used guns with no bead and they don't feel right at all to me, I guess it's the sight picture we get used to.

 
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I'm also fully right sided but I've always been mildly fascinated by the subject because my brother was 100% ambidextrous and I have a son who's right handed, right eye dominant but left footed.

Just a family of freaks. 😮

 
I'm also fully right sided but I've always been mildly fascinated by the subject because my brother was 100% ambidextrous and I have a son who's right handed, right eye dominant but left footed.

Just a family of freaks. 😮
I'm in the freak category them..... Left handed/footed, left handed for racket sports/snooker. I upset everyone when I sit down to a PC as the mouse is generally on the right and I move it to the left, however for Golf, Cricket (batting and throwing) and Shooting I'm 100% right handed and even trying to do these left handed is so uncoordinated and uncomfortable.

 
I'm in the freak category them..... Left handed/footed, left handed for racket sports/snooker. I upset everyone when I sit down to a PC as the mouse is generally on the right and I move it to the left, however for Golf, Cricket (batting and throwing) and Shooting I'm 100% right handed and even trying to do these left handed is so uncoordinated and uncomfortable.
You're ambidifficult

 
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