Disappointed with my fellow shooters.

On Saturday I went to Doveridge with my brother in law, so that he could try/buy his first gun. He is a novice shooter and I am keen for him to learn to be a safe and respectful shooter.

You know the stuff.....

break the gun as you remove it from the slip....

always open and unloaded...

keep it pointed away from anybody 

eject cartridges into your hand, and put them in the bin.

The list goes on......

Anyway, I was appalled to find about 40-50 empty cartridges at every stand we attended. All the same colours, and clearly from a group of 4-6 shooters who just dumped their empties on the ground, with absolutely no regard to the ground or the staff. 

Am I old and grumpy (and on nights) or does this offend others too?

Would you challenge a group or individual  who did this, or is it so commonplace that we ignore it?

 I bumped into the chap who ran the ground and he has a young lad that works all day picking up after shooters, because of the mess they leave.......

It certainly isn’t the grounds fault, so come on fellow shooters, pick up your empties!!!!!!! 

yes I witness  this on the few grounds I visit  ,   I think its just ignorant and rude to be honest  ,   that's just how some shooters are !!!!! 

Its annoying but its small fry, folk tip old washer and mattresses in the park hang bags of dogmuck from trees throw fag ends out of cars, Bigger fish to fry

That bugs me too.  If I ever drop an ejected cartridge I always pick it up and place in the bin.  If I see people in front of me ejecting cartridges and letting them drop on the floor I quite often pick them up and place them in the bin whilst they are coming out of the cage in the hope of shaming them!  

On safety, last year I shot at a very well known ground and was told as I hadn’t shot there for a long time I would have to have someone come out with me to make sure I was “safe”.   Don’t mind that at all but was then appalled at the squad in front of me loading their guns whilst walking from station to station on the compact layout.  When I pointed that out to the man accompanying me he looked very embarrassed and just said they should’ve known better!

Rupert said:

Its annoying but its small fry, folk tip old washer and mattresses in the park hang bags of dogmuck from trees throw fag ends out of cars, Bigger fish to fry

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Yes, I know it’s small fry, but I thought WE were better than that. We have all gone through a process to obtain a license, it isn’t a cheap sport, so most shooters work hard for a living, and I kind of expected better. 

TheSherriff70 said:

Yes, I know it’s small fry, but I thought WE were better than that. We have all gone through a process to obtain a license, it isn’t a cheap sport, so most shooters work hard for a living, and I kind of expected better. 

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It’s an offence to not put them in the bin for FITASC now. And why not.

Other shooters give me the hump sometimes.  A very short friend (4'10) was shooting at a ground with very high bars across the cage.  To unload and reload, she had to lift the gun over the bar.  At all times was the gun pointed down range, so no safety risk at all.  Mid-stand miserable old bar-steward starts having a go at her, saying the gun has to be over the bar at all times. I pointed out that the gun was pointed down range at all times and that he could do one.

Bebo said:

Other shooters give me the hump sometimes.  A very short friend (4'10) was shooting at a ground with very high bars across the cage.  To unload and reload, she had to lift the gun over the bar.  At all times was the gun pointed down range, so no safety risk at all.  Mid-stand miserable old bar-steward starts having a go at her, saying the gun has to be over the bar at all times. I pointed out that the gun was pointed down range at all times and that he could do one.

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I feel that in cases like this you should refer the miserable git to the High Court case of Arkle v. Pressdram.  Readers of Private eYe will be aware of it

Please allow me to give you the benefit of my decades of experience and observations.  Far the majority of people are stupid as rocks and behave like pigs.  If you expect differently the first thing you need to do is to be prepared to be disappointed.

HTH

Charlie

Wonko the Sane said:

Please allow me to give you the benefit of my decades of experience and observations.  Far the majority of people are stupid as rocks and behave like pigs.  If you expect differently the first thing you need to do is to be prepared to be disappointed.

HTH

Charlie

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Charlie, your views are outdated, biased, objectionable and entirely correct. 

I have been advised that belief systems are impervious to simple facts.  I cannot offer up any more definitive a proof of my own E&O.  I revel in being "outdated, biased, objectionable" - - - and, of course, correct    :angel:    I bow to your observational skills as well   :good:

I have been disappointed with my fellow humans walking briskly past homeless, destitute, broken people as though they were little more than street trash..........................seeing spent shells on or near a stand is INCREDIBLY low on my personaloffenceometer.....................crumbs sometimes fall on the floor when eating in a restaurant, we sometimes plaster welly mud all over some freshly mopped immaculate lodge floor or carpet when we hand the cards in, I've yet to ask if I could wash our plates in Cafe Nero after we've had a light lunch................................ALL activities produce some litter, we do our best to avoid the worst of it by catching the shells and binning them, some will fall around the stand, some people need to be tactfully and politely told what the bins are there for.

The act of cleaning around shooting stands is an unavoidable reality of clay shooting, it takes minutes (and I have offered to prove it) unless we're talking about some hideously overgrown patch of shrubs surrounding the stand in which case it will take longer and is hardly the norm. Once you've binned your shells spare a thought for the TONS of lead that you will personally be spreading all around this green and wonderful land, also let the fact that you will have ejected forth hundreds of thousands of highly visible and non degradable plastic wads all over the countryside eat away at your conscience. 

Context as always is everything, I have far too many real issues to be offended or concerned about. 

I agree Hamid, but it’s matter of degree as you say. We all drop the odd cartridge case that misses the bin or whatever (I usually pick it up but not always). What annoys me is the blatant spit them over the shoulder shooters. Usually it’s just because they are not regular competition shots I find. The best example I saw was a lady who caught them in her hand, then threw them back over her shoulder! The bin was right in front of her. 

Lady?

Hardly.

Will Hewland said:

I agree Hamid, but it’s matter of degree as you say. We all drop the odd cartridge case that misses the bin or whatever (I usually pick it up but not always). What annoys me is the blatant spit them over the shoulder shooters. Usually it’s just because they are not regular competition shots I find. The best example I saw was a lady who caught them in her hand, then threw them back over her shoulder! The bin was right in front of her. 

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Yes as you say it's almost always non regular or non comp shooters who simply don't know the etiquette of today, as someone who started in the early 80's I can tell you it was completely normal to eject them sideways onto the ground by the side of the stands where the scorer would gather them up in between lulls and a "work party" would then collect them all up at the end of each days play.  

Well placed bins constructed out of appropriate materials are a good idea (I hate the steel ones so thoughtlessly placed around some stands at Churchill's) but all I'm saying is we mustn't lose sight of context and accept that some litter is unavoidable, at least with spent cartridges they can easily be picked up. I would personally be loath to "litter shame" someone in front of others, you just never know the reaction you're going to get and in my opinion the crime is not serious enough to risk ruining half a dozen peoples morning with an escalating confrontation. Humour may well be required in dealing with offenders, gently does it. 

Yesterday, in the crucible of battle, I failed to catch one empty and it flew over my shoulder to who knows where. God I feel so bad now!

donna said:

That bugs me too.  If I ever drop an ejected cartridge I always pick it up and place in the bin.  If I see people in front of me ejecting cartridges and letting them drop on the floor I quite often pick them up and place them in the bin whilst they are coming out of the cage in the hope of shaming them!  

On safety, last year I shot at a very well known ground and was told as I hadn’t shot there for a long time I would have to have someone come out with me to make sure I was “safe”.   Don’t mind that at all but was then appalled at the squad in front of me loading their guns whilst walking from station to station on the compact layout.  When I pointed that out to the man accompanying me he looked very embarrassed and just said they should’ve known better!

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Sounds as if your "escort" was with the wrong person

Probably litter louts as well. No respect for countryside or environment.

Hamid is absolutely correct.  I will not argue with that at all.  My feeling is that pervasive and universal do not constitute acceptable - and yes, I understand that is not what he contended.  How the trashers' behavior might be modified is of course problematic.  Cattle prods might be effective.