Wad development

With plas wad poll going around fb and the pressure to clean up on plastic use why cant we find a cupped wad thats biodegradable?Could a paper cuped wad coated in tree resin perform like a plas wad for instance?whoever comes up with a patentable solution will be in the pound seats pretty soon ill bet.

Wad a boring subject is the simple answer..this has been covered in the deluge of other wad threads.

There are plenty of Bio options,nobody wants them so no manufacturer bothers...simple as that!

Kent Cartridge Company who used to sponsor George Digweed had a biodegradable plaswad option back in the early 90's, they didn't biodegrade much as far as I can remember and I personally preferred the regular plastics which I shot until they got bought out (by Gamebore) if memory serves.

Someone is bound to have the low down on that particular patent, essentially though I can't see why a proper alternative can't be found and feel sure one or two big breakthroughs will be announced soon enough. 

I've heard (from Claverdon Cartridges) that Jocker have started manufacturing a Fibre cartridge with a cardboard shotcup wad - they have invested in a new machinery to make the wads so it's likely not some half-arsed attempt either,  will try them when available. 

Wait until they produce the 'Bismuth' wads at £1400 per 1000   

Hamster said:

Kent Cartridge Company who used to sponsor George Digweed had a biodegradable plaswad option back in the early 90's, they didn't biodegrade much as far as I can remember and I personally preferred the regular plastics which I shot until they got bought out (by Gamebore) if memory serves.

Someone is bound to have the low down on that particular patent, essentially though I can't see why a proper alternative can't be found and feel sure one or two big breakthroughs will be announced soon enough. 

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Biowads! Used to use Kent Chargots loaded with them ,excellent shells tonly used the last few around 3 year ago ,so they kept well enough too.

Garwood said:

Biowads! Used to use Kent Chargots loaded with them ,excellent shells tonly used the last few around 3 year ago ,so they kept well enough too.

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Crikey, I wouldn’t be brave enough to shoot a 25 year old degrading wad cartridge.

Will Hewland said:

Crikey, I wouldn’t be brave enough to shoot a 25 year old degrading wad cartridge.

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They were said to start degrading once exposed to sunlight but a pigeon shooting mate of mine who placed a few inside a transparent bag on top of some soil as well as a few scattered around his garden pots reckoned they looked immaculate months if not years afterwards ! 

I started a topic on this, but some people were upset by it and felt it wasn’t exciting enough for them. It was aiding to the stagnation of the forum and providing fuel to gun haters.....or something.......anyway, I agree with Hamster, I think one of the manufacturers will already have a solution to this and is possibly waiting until it is mandatory so as to save on dual production.

This looked interesting and proves the process is going on out there to find good alternatives.

https://www.greenopsammo.com/pages/technology

There is several options already as i showed previously here but no market for them.

If it gets into the media on a large scale it will provide fuel for gun haters no doubt about that.

Wads are not exciting in any way and will stay that way until some revolutionary idea creates on that can aid in putting the lead in the right place!

Armusa were making one called Green Shot but it no longer appears listed on their site...no doubt because they didn't sell any.

All of the various options use a starch type ingredient for their bio wads,there is nothing new there and it has been the same for years...the main reason for this is they take forever to degrade in normal conditions so you will still see them therefore still a waste of time and money.

Cue the excitement at somebody describing there wad as unique....oh sorry no that would just be marketing!

It appears Armusa stopped marketing them in 2015 due to lack of interest...it would be interesting to know how many"Biowad" have sold...literally hundreds i would imagine.

they will be produced  and sold   when the manufacturers   can  charge us extortionate prices !    

Lots of smoke and mirrors surrounds plastics - it is unique material (maybe best there is?) and not that bad at all if it is dissposed, collected, reused wisely on range - just a thought:

http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html

For hunting fibres can (should?) be mandatory as far as I am concerned.

Then there is steel for waterfowl and fibres are out of the question so...

I’m aware of somebody who invested plenty of money, time and effort into developing a PVA wad. He is a fisherman (like me!) and we use PVA for various jobs as it dissolves in water.

The idea sounds like genius to me, but he couldn’t make it work at the time. 

‘Maybe in the current climate the concept might be worth re-visiting.....

I keep seeing PVA mentioned as a wonder solution yet PVA itself is a pollutant ,so you want to replace one pollutant with another doesn't that defeat the objective?

Simply ridiculous...

+ I am rather suspicious about "biodegradable" stuff. As long as 100 degradation (whatever that is) is under any doubt and terms like "microplastics" makes me nervous, it is better the devil you know (see) then the one you don't. IMO

schmokinn said:

I keep seeing PVA mentioned as a wonder solution yet PVA itself is a pollutant ,so you want to replace one pollutant with another doesn't that defeat the objective?

Simply ridiculous...

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Lots of PVA products are used in course fishing. It starts to degrade soon after contact with water so PVA bags are used to get bait close to the hook. 

DavidJ said:

Lots of PVA products are used in course fishing. It starts to degrade soon after contact with water so PVA bags are used to get bait close to the hook. 

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Yes but the chemical constituent is just dispersed in the water polluting it,what do you think it just disappears...just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there!

Sugar disappears in hot liquid but its still there and the calories don't go away.

schmokinn said:

Yes but the chemical constituent is just dispersed in the water polluting it,what do you think it just disappears...just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there!

Sugar disappears in hot liquid but its still there and the calories don't go away.

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The long term affects of PVA in the environment are important to consider. Most man-made polymers are not biodegradable. However, there are a few (including PVA) that are biodegradable when dissolved in water. This means that when PVA is disposed, micro-organisms that commonly exist in nature break down the PVA to water and carbon dioxide. As many as 55 species of micro-organisms (including bacteria, yeasts and fungi) that are naturally present in water and soils are capable of breaking down PVA. Research has shown that in river water, PVAs take no more than 1 month to break down into their component parts.”

DavidJ said:

The long term affects of PVA in the environment are important to consider. Most man-made polymers are not biodegradable. However, there are a few (including PVA) that are biodegradable when dissolved in water. This means that when PVA is disposed, micro-organisms that commonly exist in nature break down the PVA to water and carbon dioxide. As many as 55 species of micro-organisms (including bacteria, yeasts and fungi) that are naturally present in water and soils are capable of breaking down PVA. Research has shown that in river water, PVAs take no more than 1 month to break down into their component parts.”

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Ah,i see its ok to poison something for a month and when you ad more it poisons them for longer! So a constant source creates constant pollution!

Its used as a sizing agent in industry and they seem to be trying pretty hard to find soya proteins,etc to replace it...

But then people growing soya are doing massive environmental damage to land to make more fields..At least if you can see the pollution you have a better chance of removing it!