Gun mount

Okay, so in the few months I've been shooting I've always raised the gun to my cheek in preparation for me calling pull, but have always seen others, including in my own work shooting section, who have it low and raise it after they've called it and when they see the bird. Seems a lot more difficult to be doing this as it seems you obviously need to have the same mount every time for accuracy, but is there any reason why I should try and do it in time to come, cos I just can't see the benefit unless it's just habit and therefore familiarity, but then why start to get to that point?

As I said, it seems like it should be an experienced skill from a more seasoned shooter, but the last shoot I had at Bisley, there was a guy doing this who was woeful, and in my head I wondered if this was partially why as it just seems odd to me. I understand if you're game shooting you don't walk round like you're in Vietnam, gun raised, ready for it, but other than that I can't see the reasoning for doing it with clay shooting?

Over to you...

In some disciplines you have to start with "gun down."  So the more you practice, the more natural it will feel. 

Guessing it's best to make sure you learn to get the same mount every time before you try dropping to raise then? As long as I don't need the brakes, I can happily ride my bike for long distances without needing to hold the handlebars but it's not how I started. 

The terminology is “gun-up” versus “gun-down”.

For now, I would concentrate on your mount being right and shoot gun up, especially as you are shooting clays, not game. Some top clay shots will shoot gun down by choice, but usually this means just out of the shoulder, not really low. They will tell you they like the excellent vision they have before the target is addressed and that their tempo is controlled by only having the gun in the shoulder briefly. It’s a long argument / discussion, but personally I can’t really see the advantage of gun down for clays. For what it’s worth, I shoot gun up, but have my face off the comb when I call pull on most targets, before gently reconnecting once the target approaches the kill point.

I was taught to shoot gun down however whenever I am teaching someone new I always teach gun up as I don’t see the point in complicating things.

I personally have three ways of shooting.

I call with the gun up for short window targets that have to be taken early or appear relatively quickly, it just makes more sense too me as I don’t want to fluff the mount or miss my kill point due to rushing. 

I call with the gun just out of the shoulder pocket but not what you would call true gun down on targets that have a distance to travel, at an odd angle to my gun hold point or coming from tree cover where I have to look at a specific gap in the trees to see the clay approach. I feel more relaxed, I get to see and read the target better, I mount to the clay in one movement as it gets to my hold point. It just helps me prevent either lifting my head to see if I’ve missed it / no bird or playing catch up as the clay passes my hold point and I’ve a static gun.

Full gun down I use for FITASC simply because it is in the rules that the gun must be below the line on your skeet vest until the clay is visible.

So my soft mount is only to help with my incompetence and not really needed but it does help me on certain presentations hence why I do it, however for someone learning I wouldn’t bother about gun down.
 

Rightly or wrongly my instructor (at Bisley) has said you are either naturally a gun-down or gun-up shooter.

For me, it is gun-down and in the 6 months+ or so I've been shooting this is what I've been doing right from day 1. I'm objective enough to know it both helps me and hinders me in given contexts. 

With that said there are some obvious disciplines or targets where I naturally or semi-consciously make the adjustment to gun-up or just out of the pocket - for what it's worth coming from me I believe it's 50% personal preference,  50% target type and then the curve ball of rules (FITASC).

antse7en said:

Rightly or wrongly my instructor (at Bisley) has said you are either naturally a gun-down or gun-up shooter.

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I have to admit that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever no matter how I try to interpert it

I'm with you on that one Wonko  !   I have always taught newcomers to shoot 'gun up', usually because it has been a 'club' gun and it takes away several variables, thus making it easier for the beginner to actually break some clays. As they have progressed and obtained their own gun, as long as it was a 'reasonable fit', I would introduce learning to shoot 'gun down' or out of their shoulder. I would use the long slow incoming target and try to get the shooter to use BOTH hands to raise the gun to cheek/shoulder. The benefits of shooting 'gun down' can be appreciated more after you have shot for a while and have seen differing target types. I still try to shoot several clay target disciplines and shoot a mixture of gun up/down. It can certainly have some benefits during a round of sporting, which I am sure you will learn, the more that you shoot.  There are several clips of gun mounting and how to practice it at home on the Tube thingy  !  Worth a look.

El Spavo said:

Guessing it's best to make sure you learn to get the same mount every time before you try dropping to raise then? As long as I don't need the brakes, I can happily ride my bike for long distances without needing to hold the handlebars but it's not how I started. 

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Strangely enough my Grandson thought the same  !  He is currently nursing a sprained wrist, several facial cuts and grazes and a couple of stitches in his leg, oh, and he needs a new bike  !

Gun mount is best practised at home. Giving it some 10 minutes daily, in front of a mirror, should allow you to develop a reasonable gun mount technique and THAT will pay dividends if you ever consider having the gun fit finely tuned.   

I find with targets that have a small window depending on type i prefer gun up for anything with a bit of time i am learning to and prefer gun down stops me riding the target for to long and also lessens the chance of my left eye becoming dominant which can be an issue for me.

I often watch 'gun up' shooters on long incomers, the end of the gun is 'bunny hopping' or "Target/Gun/Target/Gun/Target/Gun/Target/Gun as their eyes switch between the two. Each time they look at the gun, it stops. This often ends in a miss. Keeping the gun down on this target pays dividends, or it does for me.

Its weird that i shot gun up trap for over 30 yrs and yet i cannot shoot any sporting target gun up, it just does not feel right or work for me. Go figure !!

As someone who has only been shooting 5 times and all at lessons, I have been taught to shoot "gun up" as a starting point and advised to experiment once my confidence and scores improve.  I do find this to be a bit of a nuisance on high R to L presentations as for some reason my peripheral vision does not pick the clay up until the last moment and then I rush to pull through the target and shoot.  I do tend at the moment to feel more comfortable in a gun up stance at the moment.

westley said:

I often watch 'gun up' shooters on long incomers, the end of the gun is 'bunny hopping' or "Target/Gun/Target/Gun/Target/Gun/Target/Gun as their eyes switch between the two. Each time they look at the gun, it stops. This often ends in a miss. Keeping the gun down on this target pays dividends, or it does for me.

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Yeah, I understand that. Personally, right from day one I always worked on the basis that I put my gun up where I want it, look straight ahead without deviating, then my face/gun follows my eye so I look at the target and shoot, knowing that I don't need to look at the gun. Works so far.

Where the “ always mounted “ school of thought can fall apart pretty quickly is on pairs . Some birds, either simultaneous , or on report require a change of stance . Dropping the gun from the shoulder , moving feet ,  addressing the second target , can be much more effective than trying to do the same with the gun traversing like a human turret 

Hah, bloke in our section always does what he calls his hot shoe shuffle when pairs are going a certain way. Can't helpe himself.

There are some days on the clays when gun down is a definite advantage for me.  Will - the stand at 4Cs at the end of the car park - both birds gun down - some days  my barrels just seem awfully long and wieldy and gun down gives me some control over outcome.  A mix of gun up and gun down generally speaking for me.

Well, for me, fully gun down is just an opportunity for something to go wrong. I liken it to starting a running race with a shoe-lace undone. I admit I’m not practiced in the art of it.

As I say, I sorted a hybrid method, where the gun is in my shoulder, but my face remains off the comb, so I get all the advantage of target vision. I just gently drop my face to the comb before shooting (which does need doing carefully and not suddenly). 

Will Hewland said:

Well, for me, fully gun down is just an opportunity for something to go wrong. I liken it to starting a running race with a shoe-lace undone. I admit I’m not practiced in the art of it.

As I say, I sorted a hybrid method, where the gun is in my shoulder, but my face remains off the comb, so I get all the advantage of target vision. I just gently drop my face to the comb before shooting (which does need doing carefully and not suddenly). 

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I'm going to try this, sounds sensible. 

I do something similar.  If it's a really long slow target that needs little lead I might wait with my head off the stock until it gets closer to the kill point. 

The other thing I do to stop that stuttering / stopping the gun on slow moving targets that need little / no lead is to track along behind the target and then very gently increase the gun speed to bring the gun through in front to take the shot.  It has to be very controlled, almost a slow motion swing through.  I find that if I try to track on the clay or to do close maintained lead I slow / stop the gun on firing.