Balance point

I recently put a topic on here about buying a new gun.  Since then I have read a lot, researched, shouldered some and fired a few and I have not yet found my next gun.

The main reason is some guns feel like a lump of 4x2 in your hand and others have odd balance.  I have weighed mine at exactly 3.5kg and found that the balance point is exactly under the hinge pin.

Many of the guns I tried, in fact just about all of them, were barrel heavy.  That got me thinking.  Is my gun oddly balanced and should I transition to a slightly barrel heavy gun?

Where does your gun balance and is there a recommended ideal balance point?

I've never checked mine but I do hate barrel heavy guns so I guess its close to the hinge. 

I think balance point is a total distraction. A gun with hideously heavy barrels can be balanced by adding a lump of lead in the stock, but the gun will still handle like a pig on a pitchfork. The barrel weight (in fact weight distribution along the barrel) is 90% of the way a gun feels during shooting. If you shoot gun down, it’s better to have a balance point roughly around the hinge pin however. 

Rule of thumb is on the hinge pin however i believe there is more to it than that. My Lincoln balance point is a good inch at least forward of that and yet does not feel barrel heavy....go figure.

If it feels right then its right

Will Hewland said:

I think balance point is a total distraction. A gun with hideously heavy barrels can be balanced by adding a lump of lead in the stock, but the gun will still handle like a pig on a pitchfork. The barrel weight (in fact weight distribution along the barrel) is 90% of the way a gun feels during shooting. If you shoot gun down, it’s better to have a balance point roughly around the hinge pin however. 

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I do tend to shoot gun down unless it is a close fast clay

AW13 said:

I do tend to shoot gun down unless it is a close fast clay

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Ok, so balance between hands will assist gun mount, but once mounted you’re at the mercy of how the barrels handle..

Will Hewland said:

Ok, so balance between hands will assist gun mount, but once mounted you’re at the mercy of how the barrels handle..

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Agreed, that is why I am looking for a gun that handles similar to my current gun. 

Purdey , who according to Purdey  are the BEST, recommend about an inch forward of the hinge pin .

Many people advocate balancing the gun midway between the hands .

But often you will find owners altering the weight by screwing in hideously long ported chokes , aluminium self destructing chokes , Briley Tin foil chokes , Lead strips off their UPVC Glazing , Lead stolen off the Church roof , or if you are coached by Ben a couple of 46 gram 6's stuffed up the stock bolt hole , just in case you need a heavy load for a tricky edge on at 80 yards.

So in reality I guess it is all personal choice .

The "hinge pin" in itself means very little unless we're talking about the balance point of a given gun/model, even then different wood densities in both the fore end as well as the stock will mean different guns will weight differently not only overall but in different places, add to that the type and thickness of the recoil pad...........you get the picture.

The variation in action lengths as well as metal type and thicknesses used in different guns will mean judging how a gun should be balanced can't quite be "pivotal" around the hinge pin. In essence between the hands is a pretty good place to start although a good many fine shots seem to prefer slight nose heavy feel. I have tended to prefer slight butt bias if for no other reason than the fact my arms are far less likely to tire towards the end of a string of 8-10 shots on a stand (I tend to notice and be affected by guns which suddenly make their heft known from the 3rd pair onwards). 

I balanced my old 682 30" gun between the hands but rarely shot it amazingly well because, I now believe, the barrels were too heavy to start with and my adding several ounces to the butt had just made a nose heavy gun feel dead. My 682e 32" balances between the hands with the standard wood furniture and shoots well, the same gun with the PFS stock has a butt bias feel but neither holds me back, the reason I believe is that the barrels being lighter (than old spec 682) suit me better. In other words I believe 80%+ of "handling is about the weight of the barrels to begin with. 

Balance on the hinge pin and use a fixed choke gun!

AW13 makes a very good point, some guns do feel like a lump of 4x2 in your hands so it can't just be purely about where the balance point is.   I picked up a mate's new Browning XS ProSport 3 weeks or so back and it felt 'lifeless', really hard to describe other than the desire to give it back was such that I even declined the offer of having a go.

My MK60 feels light in the front and very easy to swing or flow if you understand my meaning. I tried  a MK70 sporter and a B525 and they felt like I was having to 'heave' the barrels around, no fluidity at all.

I want to try a Barreta if I can find one to nearly fit me. I usually see far too much rib on them.

Once my certificate is back, change of address, I will have to explore Italian made guns and a B725.

Will Hewland said:

I think balance point is a total distraction. A gun with hideously heavy barrels can be balanced by adding a lump of lead in the stock, but the gun will still handle like a pig on a pitchfork. The barrel weight (in fact weight distribution along the barrel) is 90% of the way a gun feels during shooting. If you shoot gun down, it’s better to have a balance point roughly around the hinge pin however. 

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Absolutely!  IMO, regardless of how the gun feels "in the hands" a mounted gun's liveliness is determined by the weight carried in the front hand.  As I mentioned in another thread when shooting I either have to not wear a heavy chronograph that I have or "balance" it with a similar weight ID bracelet.  And of course the weight of the wristwatch noticeably affects the liveliness of the gun with all that weight added to the front hand.  And with the added weight of  both the watch and the bracelet fixed to the gun by my hands, the recoil is markedly reduced.  So, pluses and minuses.

Wonko the Sane said:

Absolutely!  IMO, regardless of how the gun feels "in the hands" a mounted gun's liveliness is determined by the weight carried in the front hand.  As I mentioned in another thread when shooting I either have to not wear a heavy chronograph that I have or "balance" it with a similar weight ID bracelet.  And of course the weight of the wristwatch noticeably affects the liveliness of the gun with all that weight added to the front hand.  And with the added weight of  both the watch and the bracelet fixed to the gun by my hands, the recoil is markedly reduced.  So, pluses and minuses.

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Well my gold Rolex is staying on my wrist... people have got to know that whilst I am a sh*te shot I have moochos capoochos    seriously though I have a quite heavy wrist watch I wear from time to time and then a Titanium watch which I wear sometimes... but any crap rounds from now on are going to be blamed on my choice of wrist watch that day 

AW13 said:

My MK60 feels light in the front and very easy to swing or flow if you understand my meaning. I tried  a MK70 sporter and a B525 and they felt like I was having to 'heave' the barrels around, no fluidity at all.

I want to try a Barreta if I can find one to nearly fit me. I usually see far too much rib on them.

Once my certificate is back, change of address, I will have to explore Italian made guns and a B725.

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If you are used to a Miroku, (like myself)  the only Beretta guns that I have ever managed to get on with, and I have tried quite a few, are the 300 series auto's and O/U's with a 'field' stock . Apart from my 303 and 391 auto's, all of the other 'Italian'  guns have been and gone.  The field stock on the Beretta tends to be a touch lower but also has a lot less wood in the grip and comb. Even some of the Browning guns have been too high in the comb, compared to the Miroku.  I now use a 725 'black' with an adjustable comb, a Beretta 303 and my latest toy, a Heritage 20 bore game. Try the Italian guns, but do not expect too much  !  

Hmm - that does not bode too well for anything Italian.  I have a Franchi semi auto which I like but I wanted to get an O/U with multi choke to give me bettter flexibility when shooting places where semi's are frownd on..

westley said:

Try the Italian guns, but do not expect too much  !  

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On the other hand there are those that might say that nothing made in Japan matches the handling of the better Italian guns.

Which is why, as an engineer, I agree with this:

Will Hewland said:

I think balance point is a total distraction. A gun with hideously heavy barrels can be balanced by adding a lump of lead in the stock, but the gun will still handle like a pig on a pitchfork. The barrel weight (in fact weight distribution along the barrel) is 90% of the way a gun feels during shooting. If you shoot gun down, it’s better to have a balance point roughly around the hinge pin however. 

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Hi

Being rather small I had to have my 30” grade 1 mk38 shortened.(to 13 1/2 “) I also had an x pad fitted.  Thus barrel heavy. Weighed the cut offstock and pad, added lead to the equal weight to the stock bolt hole. Now with the teuque chokes in balence 1” in front of the hinge pin.  I like the balence better than the Sv 10 I had previous. Less flighty. However I am no expert.

Damon

Westward said:

On the other hand there are those that might say that nothing made in Japan matches the handling of the better Italian guns.

Which is why, as an engineer, I agree with this:

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I am in no way being critical of Italian guns and I admire those that can shoot them. However, speaking from personal experience and my observations of others who have switched from Japanese guns, most have gone back to their Miroku's or Browning's. I have been down the SO and Perazzi route and suffice it to say, I now shoot a Browning (apart from my 303 auto, that is).