Shell performance

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hnachaj

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
396
I am somewhat amazed over the years shooting in Europe that, nearly all Euro shooters look at the height of the brass and how little it costs, to choose a shell. There are very FEW shooters in Europe that bother with some sort of scientific testing of their shells! Nobody patterns loads nor does hardness tests nevermind owning a chronograph!There are so many misconceptions about shells. One of many, is that higher antimony shells out perform lower antimony shells. Tim Woodhouse debunked this in the latest ClayshootingUSA issue. I also had a revealing experience while visiting RC Cartridges. Here is the short of it. Supersonic loads loose their velocity at twice the rate of subsonic loads. High antimony shot looses velocity more than low antimony shot as the later is denser (look at steel shot versus lead). Higher antimony shot usualy patterns better but that is not always the case as higher pressure loads and not fully encapsulated shot will have more deformities than lower pressure and fully encapsilated loads! The Italians have learned with their success in Olympic trap that heavier (denser) pellets will not ricochet off a target and do retain more energy at distance than less dense and faster pellets. So they keep antimony levels to a max of 3% compared to British and American shells which can have 5 and even 8%. At FITASC Sporting and Olympic trap distances, many targets do not break but are dusted. The harder but lighter pellet does not have the energy to beak the target but just sufficient to either bounce of or punch a hole.So how do they keep the patterns from being blown with the softer compounds? Simple, it is something tha we did to harden are long range metallic silhouette bullets. Once formed in themold, we would drop them into a pail of water while still soft. This would increase the hardness by 6 fold. The bullets would barely distort hitting steel at 100 Meters! This is the Italian tempered shot! It is shot, made while being dropped into water for a molecular restructuring increasing its hardness 6 fold while retaining density which is important at distances of over 50 yards! So now I know why the RC shells perform so well, specialy the RC Red. The RC Red Supernik has another story to tel and the coating has nothing to do with hardening the pellet! I can bet, that nobody knows what plating pellets does! Junior Technoid of the third degree,The Lone Canadian,Henry/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
Henry are you talkin about Electroplating or Nickle plating ? Nigel

 
Nice post Henry, it's true what you say about shooters over here not bothering with ballistics much but remember 50 yards is a bloody long way and most of us shoot sporting where the majority of shots are showing a little face when at range. I'm defo going to get hold of some of these RC Red stuff /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-cool.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-smile.gif.

 
RC in the Supernik plates the shot pellet. I dare everyone to explain what this does! Honestly, I have shot RC for many years while in Europe and some Gamebore. What I do to evaluate a foreign shell is to open it and verify the components. I look for a full shot cup and a hard pellet. I then shoot was is softest during the practice. Since 2000, the best combination for me, was RC 4 and this year RC Red Supernik. So when I had the opertunity to actualy test them at the plant at 35M and then get a quality control report of ten shells of each: RC4, RC Red and RC Supernik, I was amazed. The Standard diviation was 6 FPS for the RC Supernik. It is unheard from ALL shotshells that I have tested! The patterns at 35M where tighter and tighter going from RC4, RC Red and RC Supernik in my DT10L with Muller 2 and 3 chokes. They compared very well to slower subsonic  Winchester AA Extra-Light and Federal Gold Medal Extra-Light!So, RC has a supersonic loading that is soft to the shoulder and has sufficient density to break targets way out there while retaining energy! The Lone Canadian,Henry/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
It is ALL about science! One needs to know about shotshell performance at distance. I have done it and have pics and videos! Just because a certain big gun uses as certain shotshell and many ads show this high brass shotshell , does not mean anythign when one tests the shells1 The Lone Canadian,Henry/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
but Henry I've no problem with anything you've said but I've been told if you went through a case of shells and tried them out on a pattern sheet there will be many differences between single cartridges -- what do you think of this  ? Nigel

 
That is why one should test at least 5 of the same box. Patterns are bell curves and random. What I have seen is, that the more consistent patterns are from shells that have the least amount of difference in shell speed. That is that the smaller the standard deviation and the smallest difference in shot weight produce near identical patterns.The Lone Canadian,Henry/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-wink.gif

 
Good post Henry, I used to have sponsorship from RC. Excellant shells.I believe Tim Woodhouse does a lot of his testing at Lyalvale Express, they like most (all?) of the British manufacturers have a test facility with pressure tests, pellet hardness tests and chronographs.Gamebore manufacture shot at their facility in Hull using the Bessimer process which involves molten lead taking a short drop into water. They also have the more common shot tower as well so I guess they know a thing or two about shot manufacture.

 
Hi Henry, thanks for introducing a technical aspect to these pages. Most of my compatriots here are sporting clay specialists, some ladies and some helice experts. They know their sport is an art not a science and that up to 30yds everything works – any load, any shot size, the least choke the better. At 40yds they're starting to get interested in choke but if the target is face on then how many pellets do you need to cover 12sq" of clay – overhead even 9 shot works. At 50yds they think about a better cartridge [some with a little too much lead but that's a concern of Nigel's] The looper across the valley at Hodnet? Quarter choke and a trap cartridge breaks it everytime. Interestingly their hero George seems to like his shot low antimony and rolled in aluminium dust. The Italians and myself are into Olympic Trap where they're edge on, receding fast and shaped like a shot deflector. I've tested Supernik and straighted the first practice round so my head is turned but my colleagues above only need one box to hand.

 
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I have a couple of questions about cartridges.Who is the importer of RC cartridges to the UK?Lead price is currently at a low, when it shot up a few years ago the cartridge manufacturers immediately increased their prices , saying it was because they did not hold leadshot in stock and therefore had to pay the increased price for the shot.Will cartridge prices now drop to reflect the lower cost of lead shot?/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif 

 
In my honest opinion I do not believe that shells will ever drop in price but will continously keep going up, we the shooters are a captive audience and they can thrive on this.You can see this all across europe as well. Steel over here is a bit more expensive than what you would pay for Steel in the UK. Over here they have to use steel so again captive audience comes into play.I think i will buy my steel shells in the UK and bring them over I can save a few quid this way! 65€ for 250 28gram Steel is way to much! I haven't seen 1000 shell rates but if I buy a few 1000 in UK I will definitely be doing myself a favour! Glen.

 
Thanks to Henry for highlighting the quality of RC Cartridges.Had a look at Justcartridges prices  and RC are cheaper than some brands and comparable with most.Shooting Star in Suffolk are the importer and they have a pretty good distribution base, I found four stores local to me with stock. So guess what cartridges I will be shooting ?/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

 
Exactly Ed! Just an excuse and those looking for a quick fix!Basically give me 20000 shells of something a year and they will be the best shells in the world! /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

 
wylye said:

Nah! Clever Mirage Grand Italia are the ones. 
 are they not only for ground owners and professionals     
imslow.gif
 Nige
 

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