Doctor Lecter
Well-known member
anyone on shootclay shoot the zoli z gun ? been hanging my nose over one for a while , bad points , good ones , build quality , has matey done a zoli review ?
zoli z gun
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Jonny English
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If it's of any use, I bought my last Browning from Rob at R and B sporting in Ross on Wye. While there we were discussing zoli and Caesar Guerin etc. He had been around the zoli factory and thought they were better made than the CG's but lacked the marketing etc to really push the brand, but was of the opinion that the design and quality was there. Only down side is the depreciation on them is quite large, resale value seems to be very poor.
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I was lent one a while ago. Although I only put 100 shells through I found it to be OK but nothing more than that. Handling was fine although a little light in the barrel for my taste. Quality was acceptable but not outstanding. I found it very similar to a Cesar Guerini or a middle of the road Beretta or Browning.
The problem is Zoli’s aren’t cheap. For the money you spend you could also buy a good quality second hand Krieghoff or Perazzi which, in my opinion, are much better guns that’ll probably last longer and certainly depreciate less.
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Secondhand Zoli Z guns are a bargain and a bit special. They are better quality than Guerini, the detachable trigger mechanism is superb in my opinion and they handle beautifully. They are more on a level with Perazzi and Kemen. They lack the marketing of Guerini and suffer from big depreciation from new. Two grand will buy a good one and it will never really be worth much less. Worth a try I think.
Both correct and catch 22 is that one will always be the product of the other. Perazzi aren't uber successful because the guns are better, more reliable or last longer, (some might argue quite the reverse in their segment) but they are superbly marketed :wink: as has Ceasar Guerrini been from inception. FWIW I think Zoli are great guns, the used Kronos I owned for a while felt a little like a DT10 albeit flawed in a few places, the current ones too are no doubt good guns but until Zoli bite the humble bullet and listen to someone who knows what they're talking about and can get them spec'd to this market AND re-think their pricing/marketing strategy they will remain an undiscovered gem.
Back in 08 Jul 2016 I wrote this in PigeonWatch in reply to someone asking me what I thought would turn the Invictus from a good to great gun :
"I think the barrels could do with being lighter, say around 1450g and offered with fixed 1/2 & 3/4 chokes, ideally I'd make the rib 9-5mm, get rid of the palm swell and elongate the hand grip area (at present it's too restricted to allow complete freedom), I'd also put grooves either side of the fore end instead of the current shape to make it steadier under recoil and wet conditions (basically a Trap fore end), the pressed action engraving is also a bit of a yawn if I'm honest, full fat comp guns tend to be either black or fairly plain bright steel, given time I reckon I could come up with a sensible idea for that area.
In an absolutely ideal world I'd also make the standard stock slightly higher and the lever thicker and fit Isis Green pads as standard. Some of the suggestions will cost nothing, one or two will actually save money."
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Who knows, maybe great minds think alike :lol: B) and CG just happened to be thinking along those lines anyway, it's irrelevant .............. what IS relevant is that I was right and many of those suggestions popped up on the M spec Invictus which being clever at marketing they're milking and selling for a higher price than the std Invictus which must be dearer to produce given it comes with multi chokes !!
The first thing Zoli needs to understand is that ye don't turn up on the scene and start selling guns at the high end, first ye needs to get proper spec reliable guns capable of winning into the mass market, i.e, break the back of the mid price segment first which back when they entered the market meant sub £2k, rule equal number 1 is you MUST get them into winners/high profile hands from the start, there is no way round that, giving them to good AAA/AA's is not going to work. Further secrets will be shared upon signed consultation contract. :lol: :clover:
Iggy
Well-known member
Have to agree with Hamster, I know it’s off topic (Zoli) but Guerini do seem to be pitching things about right although I’m sure this is in part helped by what seems to be huge success and uptake in the US.
I bought an Invictus Supersport (M- Spec) a few months back after picking one up as it felt so good. The Full and 3/4 played with my head so I had it fettled to 3/4 and 1/2 last week and the gun is now, to me, spot on.
I think there are some really good, hidden gems out there that just don’t have the brand strength of the big boys....does make you wonder just how much value (or cash) the ‘name’ adds as a percentage of the selling price.
In my experience buying a brand doesn’t always buy you the quality you might/should expect. I know there will always be the odd ‘bad un’ but having been an advocate of a certain big brand for many years, I bought 3 new guns on the trot and all 3 had to go back to the importer to be put right so I’ll never buy another....especially when my lesser ‘known’ gun has never once missed a beat.
I bought an Invictus Supersport (M- Spec) a few months back after picking one up as it felt so good. The Full and 3/4 played with my head so I had it fettled to 3/4 and 1/2 last week and the gun is now, to me, spot on.
I think there are some really good, hidden gems out there that just don’t have the brand strength of the big boys....does make you wonder just how much value (or cash) the ‘name’ adds as a percentage of the selling price.
In my experience buying a brand doesn’t always buy you the quality you might/should expect. I know there will always be the odd ‘bad un’ but having been an advocate of a certain big brand for many years, I bought 3 new guns on the trot and all 3 had to go back to the importer to be put right so I’ll never buy another....especially when my lesser ‘known’ gun has never once missed a beat.
Cosmicblue
Well-known member
One of my shooting buddies shoots a Zoli - the plating on the side of the action seems to be allergic to being cleaned and has fallen off...
Zoli make nice guns. However I'm not convinced that they're better build quality than CG but then I haven't been inside a Zoli whereas I own a CG.
What Zoli got wrong and CG got right is that CG followed the basic marketing tenet of picking a market segment where they were competing with minimal established products, viz the 682 Gold E. With the sporters they put out 4 or 5 good performing guns from the Summit to the Maxum which straddled the 682 pricewise whilst offering packages which Beretta couldn't match. Things have changed now, with several versions of the 725, a couple of 692 versions, the grade III 690s and a couple of blinged up Silver Pigeons all fighting for a share of what has become CG's market. Hence the Invictus range which moves CGs up a notch or two. The Guerini brothers are quite simply the smartest people in the shotgun making business.
Zoli, with their range are offering a lookalike Perazzi at around half the price or less. Problem is that, as said, you can buy a nice 2nd user Perazzi for Zoli money, plus which there are others such as Salvinelli and Renato Gamba doing the exact same thing.
Zolis are nice guns indeed but where's the USP?
What Zoli got wrong and CG got right is that CG followed the basic marketing tenet of picking a market segment where they were competing with minimal established products, viz the 682 Gold E. With the sporters they put out 4 or 5 good performing guns from the Summit to the Maxum which straddled the 682 pricewise whilst offering packages which Beretta couldn't match. Things have changed now, with several versions of the 725, a couple of 692 versions, the grade III 690s and a couple of blinged up Silver Pigeons all fighting for a share of what has become CG's market. Hence the Invictus range which moves CGs up a notch or two. The Guerini brothers are quite simply the smartest people in the shotgun making business.
Zoli, with their range are offering a lookalike Perazzi at around half the price or less. Problem is that, as said, you can buy a nice 2nd user Perazzi for Zoli money, plus which there are others such as Salvinelli and Renato Gamba doing the exact same thing.
Zolis are nice guns indeed but where's the USP?
Madmillie
Well-known member
This is a very interesting topic .
Zoli have never ever really caught on.
When they were originally imported, before Edgar Bros , Mick Nicholson shot one very well and won a lot with his , patterning was superb .
Becky Mackenzie sticks with hers and shoots very well with it.
Although Edgar Bros have put them into the hands of a good few celebrity shooters , most have given up with them. Why? I just do not know .
I really do think the biggest issue with gun ownership is having too much disposable income, advertising/marketing forces and fickle ownership.
But thankfully due to ever increasing costs of cartridges and clays , soon none of us will be able to afford guns or to change them.
Zoli have never ever really caught on.
When they were originally imported, before Edgar Bros , Mick Nicholson shot one very well and won a lot with his , patterning was superb .
Becky Mackenzie sticks with hers and shoots very well with it.
Although Edgar Bros have put them into the hands of a good few celebrity shooters , most have given up with them. Why? I just do not know .
I really do think the biggest issue with gun ownership is having too much disposable income, advertising/marketing forces and fickle ownership.
But thankfully due to ever increasing costs of cartridges and clays , soon none of us will be able to afford guns or to change them.
ips
Well-known member
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I like them. Affordable, aesthetically pleasing, balance and stock dimension feels nice (although I haven't actually shot one) quality seems good. Ok depreciation may be an issue but I would buy one regardless of that. I am recently converted to "something different" as opposed to the mass produced over priced over hyped leading brands. All of the above can be had for a fraction of the cost of "designer labels"
Like the look of the Kronos,handled a couple of 32" Sporters,felt good but havn`t shot one !
Guess they`re a leap into the dark for many people who`ll stick to proven makes. To the older of us,Zoli was not a name attached to
quality guns either,the ones that reached our shores years ago were budget guns.
There are some very tempting s/h buys around at the moment !!!!
Guess they`re a leap into the dark for many people who`ll stick to proven makes. To the older of us,Zoli was not a name attached to
quality guns either,the ones that reached our shores years ago were budget guns.
There are some very tempting s/h buys around at the moment !!!!
You can't go far wrong at this sort of money : https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/zoli-antonio-co/over-under/12-gauge/z-sport-170809132548278
Looks like a bargain. I would much rather have that than some of the other two grand guns out there.
What can you buy for two grand that is any good? Answers on a postcard please.
balltrap
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I can only speak for myself, but I'm more interested in shooting than having owned a pile of guns. Tho I admit that I did do that until I figured out what works for me. Going thu a buncha guns and losing a few $ on each flip was not what brought the wisdom. I'm just a slow learner and don't pay attention. May have been a artifact of the silk purse / sow's ear syndrome.
It's not like people didn't tell me.
I just didn't bother to listen.
Then I did.
Then I went to a Perazzi.
Really pretty simple after that but I still don't have a logo'd T-shirt or cap. I did put stickers on a couple of them tho so I guess that might count.
It's not like people didn't tell me.
I just didn't bother to listen.
Then I did.
Then I went to a Perazzi.
Really pretty simple after that but I still don't have a logo'd T-shirt or cap. I did put stickers on a couple of them tho so I guess that might count.
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Earlier this year I was at Lonato shooting the UT Euros and met Peter Wilson who was in the company of three Zoli technicians setting up three or four very special guns. I got a good chat with Peter and his dad they explained that Peter was thinking about a bid for the 2020 Olympic OT . He had visited the Zoli factory and was very impressed with the work that went on there. It is now official that he is going to try and qualify however I do not know if he will use a Zoli. Zoli guns are quite popular right about where I shoot because one of the local shooters owns a shop that markets them the half high rib guns are the most popular and there is no doubt that they are well made guns.
PhilR
Well-known member
I shoot in Italy quite regularly and there is quite a Zoli following among Italian trap shooters, far more in sight than Caesar Guerinis.
