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gothicsera

DTL first timer

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PP

Thankfully, not every shoot is like yours. Most shoots understand that it’s the guns prerogative as to how they want the day to run thankfully, for example who only stand 7 to try to keep most people in the shooting, there is nothing worse than being crammed together like sardines

If you can’t tolerate and respect other people’s opinions then it’s you who is the badger who has no place in an open inclusive sport and adds little to society

Sounds  like you should stick to your little Jonah game in your tin shed

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PhilR
58 minutes ago, PP said:

Thankfully, not every shoot is like yours. Most shoots understand that it’s the guns prerogative as to how they want the day to run thankfully, for example who only stand 7 to try to keep most people in the shooting, there is nothing worse than being crammed together like sardines

If you can’t tolerate and respect other people’s opinions then it’s you who is the badger who has no place in an open inclusive sport and adds little to society

Sounds  like you should stick to your little Jonah game in your tin shed

😭😭😭😭😭

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ips
33 minutes ago, Paul120 said:

 Cylinder is all you need for OT as proved at Nuthampstead.

11728125_987691007931549_1354752915_n.mp4

 

 

..

however we all remember the times when even full wouldn't break em at nutty :frown:

10 hours ago, PhilR said:

Not really. My syndicate is a small farm shoot of one team comprising three parts:  beaters, pickers up and guns. Each part is expecting the other two parts to do their jobs on the day too, not dip in and out as the feeling takes them.

We stand nine guns, suddenly one dropping out buggers it up for everyone else. If we're one short at the start of the day, it does happen very occasionally if someone is ill, we can normal get one of the half guns not on rotation to stand in or one of the beaters gets a bonus day.

Having someone in the team who wants to opt in or out on a whim is a nuisance and they'd get told. There's plenty of guns who'd like to join the syndicate and add value to it.

Similarly if guns are noticed to be taking unsporting shots, are poaching other guns' birds or acting in an unsafe manner they are spoken to too.

It strikes me this bloke is just a 

not dissimilar to my syndicate, 16 guns 2 teams of 8 stand one walk one. We are regularily short of a gun or guns so we either give a beater (there are only a couple who come for free to work there dogs) a shoot, or one of the other team stands as we can usually beat the woods with fewer folk than we have. It sound s to me like PP is saying that he is uncomfortable pricking birds if he is "having a day" like we all sometimes have and to me it is commendable to stand down and shows respect for the quarry, nobody likes an undead bird. A slight digression from the original topic but re unsporting birds, I am in no way advocating pilowcasing birds but what is more unsporting a dead bird a little low or a pricked bird at 50yd ?? Unsafe shots we do not tolerate on any of the shoots I attend in capacity of gun or loader. Poaching doesn't really happen on our syndicate as we all have respect for each other and are more concerned about "the syndicates day" than we are about individual bags, I suppose its a case of getting into a really good respectful syndicate and I count myself lucky to have done so. 

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Doug Pinnegar

I'm going to shoot at my first DTL and ABT targets on Friday (hopefully) at Edgehill. 

Then on Sunday I'm shooting the 'All Round' at Orston so will be shooting them in a registered environment. Will stick with 3/8 for the Single barrel DTL and then move up to 1/2 for the ABT (unsure if it's double barrel at ABT in All Round?)

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ips

its up to you and much info has been thrown about but out of interest on what basis are you using 3/8 for dtl and 1/2 for abt ?

Do you consider that the extra "spread" of an open choke with the odd flyer on the edge of the pattern will give you an advantage over a more dense pattern of a 3/4.??

Folk talk about it not mattering what choke you have in (even if you can tell the difference) as the target will break if you point it in the right direction, I read these remarks to mean that the target will break despite of the open choke not because of it............if people who advocate open chokes for trap and pointing it in the right direction as being the main reason that a target is killed truly believed it then they would be shooting full and full and concerning themselves with doing just that  ????

Fixed choke trap guns are 3/4 and full for a reason..especially ABT and OT were the target is edge on and can be a fare distance.

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jwpzx9r
12 hours ago, ips said:

Phil is a great shoooter, an ambassador for the sport and a friend and i would not be so bold as to dispute anything he may say or advise , however most trap shooters use 3/4 full and there is no denying the fact.

Ian you are a very experienced shooter and do not need to be told what chokes can be used you have already found what suits you and that is fine. The post I made was for the OP who has not got your, or Phil's, experience. As to choking on trap guns, Perazzi will make you a trap gun with any choke sizes you want. The reason as you know the favoured 3/4 and full persists is down to the fact that very good shooters can and do use tight chokes with 24 g of lead... it in no way means that the are the standard required.

The article by Derek Partridge was illuminating. Here is a man who has, indeed was the first, to shoot 200 straight at OT has won numerous major competitions and when he writes an article explaining WHY in general most trap shooters shoot with chokes that are too tight for optimum performance.. sensible people will take note. In short his analysis of his shooting revealed that nine times out of ten he made powder of the target first barrel ... great you might think... no he says! The optimal break is not a black ball of dust but a star shaped collection of clay target pieces... even for him! Now what he was saying is that lesser shooters will be more competitive with open chokes because they will break targets that they might miss with 3/4 while using 1/2 or even less for a first barrel. He actually advocates the 3/8 choke for a first barrel and quite rightly states that the object of the exercise is to break the target not atomize it ! Of course his article is not written for professional or major shooters... it is written for the likes of me an you, shooters who are nowhere near the standard required to shoot and win major competitions, but written to try and help people like us to break targets consistently.

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ips
1 minute ago, jwpzx9r said:

Ian you are a very experienced shooter and do not need to be told what chokes can be used you have already found what suits you and that is fine. The post I made was for the OP who has not got your, or Phil's, experience. As to choking on trap guns, Perazzi will make you a trap gun with any choke sizes you want. The reason as you know the favoured 3/4 and full persists is down to the fact that very good shooters can and do use tight chokes... it in no way means that the are the standard required.

The article by Derek Partridge was illuminating. Here is a man who has, indeed was the first, to shoot 200 straight at OT has won numerous major competitions and when he writes an article explaining WHY in general most trap shooters shoot with chokes that are too tight for optimum performance.. sensible people will take note. In short his analysis of his shooting revealed that nine times out of ten he made powder of the target first barrel ... great you might think... no he says! The optimal break is not a black ball of dust but a star shaped collection of clay target pieces... even for him! Now what he was saying is that lesser shooters will be more competitive with open chokes because they will break targets that they might miss with 3/4 while using 1/2 or even less for a first barrel. He actually advocates the 3/8 choke for a first barrel and quite rightly states that the object of the exercise is to break the target not atomize it ! Of course his article is not written for professional or major shooters... it is written for the likes of me an you, shooters who are nowhere near the standard required to shoot and win major competitions, but written to try and help people like us to break targets consistently.

with respect was this not written in the days that preceeded 24g loads

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jwpzx9r
5 minutes ago, ips said:

with respect was this not written in the days that preceeded 24g loads

Yes I think it was 28g when he wrote the article ... that does not diminish the principal though as  DTL, UT and ABT are 28g disciplines . I have shot my Perazzi using 24g loads and to be honest not been at all disappointed. In short I am intelligent enough to know when I miss the target... it was my fault not being on the target and not blaming the miss on the size of the choke in my gun.

Ian one has to be aware of ones own shooting. I have shot lots of straights now BUT I have also shot a lot more 24's and 23's but when I shoot those I don't say to myself bastard that clay went straight through the pattern or duff cartridges ... I know when I have missed the target! :lol:

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ips

the 24g is another minefield john, and neither of us want to let that genie out the bottle again :D

Anyway I have said my bit and I will leave it at that (cant find a thumbs up thing so insert one here)

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Doug Pinnegar

Do I need to use 24gm loads at the All Round in ABT/DTL/Skeet phases?

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Paul120
1 hour ago, ips said:

..

however we all remember the times when even full wouldn't break em at nutty :frown:

 

True.  No guarantee of a break, even when stood over them with sledgehammer. 

The gun I was using at that time was a Browning at Full and Full which may of helped 

Although not a Nutty in those days, I moved to  Perazzi at 1/2 & full and never noticed any difference in quality of breaks. 

 

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ips
28 minutes ago, Doug Pinnegar said:

Do I need to use 24gm loads at the All Round in ABT/DTL/Skeet phases?

No doug you need 28g for dtl and abt. 24g is only for OT

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Doug Pinnegar
1 hour ago, ips said:

No doug you need 28g for dtl and abt. 24g is only for OT

Phew, I was worried there :)

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Deershooter

I wouldn't use anything other than 3/4 at single barrel 

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balltrap
5 hours ago, Paul120 said:

 

True.  No guarantee of a break, even when stood over them with sledgehammer. 

The gun I was using at that time was a Browning at Full and Full which may of helped 

Although not a Nutty in those days, I moved to  Perazzi at 1/2 & full and never noticed any difference in those I missed. 

 

You would not notice :eek:

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Wonko the Sane

It's been my experience as well that regardless of gun/choke those I miss all seem unharmed.

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Doug Pinnegar

You'll be pleased to know that after I arrived at the ABT layout and took one look at the targets I screwed 3/4 and full in to the gun! 

Damn. They don't hang about. I ended up on 16/25 for the ABT and 21/25 on the DTL.

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ips
24 minutes ago, Doug Pinnegar said:

You'll be pleased to know that after I arrived at the ABT layout and took one look at the targets I screwed 3/4 and full in to the gun! 

Damn. They don't hang about. I ended up on 16/25 for the ABT and 21/25 on the DTL.

whatever you may think that is a perfectly good start.

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