I quite often see shooters who use two different cartridges for first and second barrel. What is the thinking here? Is it using a lesser quality/ velocity for the first barrel and a better/ higher velocity for the second ? I just use the same for both but if I was going to use this method that is what I would do but then again get the best in the first barrel and get the job done... but if you do miss better to have a hard hitting cartridge in the second tube? I am intrigued what is the reason for using two different cartridges?
Using two different cartridges
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Will Hewland
Well-known member
The shooter will have their own theory as to why. I suspect sometimes there is little logic, but keeps them happy.. theory says if the second barrel is larger shot size it will be a tighter pattern downrange.
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Yes I thought about shot size too but most of the shooters I have seen doing it are using 2.4mm in both tubes ?? I thought it was more about the quality of the cartridge, obviously logic says use the best you can in both barrels BUT if you only have so much cash a cheaper cartridge may be more effective at shorter range so use it first and a better one if the second barrel is required?
schmokinn
Well-known member
Depending on target distance i may use fibre in one and plastic in the other as i have fixed chokes and look for as much pattern as i can get on close stuff.
I know it can vary a lot between cartridges too so maybe they have patterned different shells at different distances and one gives a distinct advantage closer vs further?
I know it can vary a lot between cartridges too so maybe they have patterned different shells at different distances and one gives a distinct advantage closer vs further?
Will is right of course, all shooters have their own theory and either way it probably does more good than harm because they feel better for it mentally. Having said that I have always personally questioned whether bigger shot is factually better at longer range (on regular targets not rabbits or rockets etc,) because for one thing we haven't got enough data to truly know for sure if there is a definite tightening of the pattern with bigger shot, remember tiny percentages aren't really enough because shot to shot variations account for that in any case even for your normal shot. The undeniable reality though that we don't even need to carry out tests for is that bigger shot will significantly reduce your pattern density and the old adage was always : pattern fails before penetration.
Real life experience seems to back that up in that from time to time we all fire at and break some extremely long range targets which consistently break well with rather small shot such as 2.3 or even 2.2mm 8's. There are 442 number 8's in a 28g load, 398 x 7.5's and if memory serves only 350 x 7's, do you really really want to throw 6.5's at a 55 yard crosser or Teal that you've just watched someone demolish with 7.5 ?
I will add that people who shoot tight fixed chokes will do well to try and carry a few shells for close stuff but they must first pattern them and not just rely on assumptions that just because it's smaller shot or is a fibre load it's going to throw appreciably more open at close yardages.
Real life experience seems to back that up in that from time to time we all fire at and break some extremely long range targets which consistently break well with rather small shot such as 2.3 or even 2.2mm 8's. There are 442 number 8's in a 28g load, 398 x 7.5's and if memory serves only 350 x 7's, do you really really want to throw 6.5's at a 55 yard crosser or Teal that you've just watched someone demolish with 7.5 ?
I will add that people who shoot tight fixed chokes will do well to try and carry a few shells for close stuff but they must first pattern them and not just rely on assumptions that just because it's smaller shot or is a fibre load it's going to throw appreciably more open at close yardages.
As I see it - you are facing two predictable target scenarios in trap - both with known clay position and distance. Both can be served with different setups to make it optimal - hence the two different cartridges scenario.
While first shot is taken at distances that even 24g cartridge covers fine I am looking for a soft, fast-ish shell (possible smaller size shot - proper 2.2mm through 3/8 works wonders) + you get less recoil that is benefitial in muzzle jump + over multiple series your recoil tank fills slowly and you are doing better over longer periods.
But...if/when you miss with the first shot you are facing a different scenario - you must correct an error at prolonged range where other attributes count and you need to find anything there is to make it before fat lady sings. Heavy strong cartridge may save the day with that single kill at the end.
While when you are on the top of the things everything goes (I have shot most of 25's when training with Hull Intercomp HV 24g 2.3mm in both barrels), I just don't have a nerve to do it in the competition where 28g is allowed a Parcours in 2.4mm is what I trust for that second shot (may not be needed but as you know confidence is the key).
That is for trap - in sporting I only shoot one cartridge - according to the majority of the targets on the peg.
While first shot is taken at distances that even 24g cartridge covers fine I am looking for a soft, fast-ish shell (possible smaller size shot - proper 2.2mm through 3/8 works wonders) + you get less recoil that is benefitial in muzzle jump + over multiple series your recoil tank fills slowly and you are doing better over longer periods.
But...if/when you miss with the first shot you are facing a different scenario - you must correct an error at prolonged range where other attributes count and you need to find anything there is to make it before fat lady sings. Heavy strong cartridge may save the day with that single kill at the end.
While when you are on the top of the things everything goes (I have shot most of 25's when training with Hull Intercomp HV 24g 2.3mm in both barrels), I just don't have a nerve to do it in the competition where 28g is allowed a Parcours in 2.4mm is what I trust for that second shot (may not be needed but as you know confidence is the key).
That is for trap - in sporting I only shoot one cartridge - according to the majority of the targets on the peg.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Back in the day I thot for a while that would be a worthy approach to pigeons - 8's in the first bbl and 7.5's in the second. Didn't take long to decide that it was more trouble than worth and just used the 7.5's. Now I just use whatever I got the best buy on.
JMO of course and I'll cop to lazy at the heart of it
JMO of course and I'll cop to lazy at the heart of it
westley
Well-known member
I have witnessed some Trap shooters whose cartridges only work if they are the right way up (ie:- the name on the head upright !).
Absolutely. Gotta make sure the pattern is the right way up! It's all part of the routine.
As for two cartridge types, when shooting UT I have started using 7.5's for first barrel and 7's in the second. Thinking being the 7's have better energy at longer range.
DT
As for two cartridge types, when shooting UT I have started using 7.5's for first barrel and 7's in the second. Thinking being the 7's have better energy at longer range.
DT
chippy
Well-known member
I use I mid price cartridge for the first barrel and a cheap one for the second. My thinking is that I don't hit many second barrel shots and it saves on firing expensive lead into thin air.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I never know if you guys are ref'ing English sizes or what but if they are those are US 7.5's and 8's like I was using. I really don't know if I'd use 8's on international targets but they do kill pigeons like a hammer so maybe they're OK. Any reason to not just use 7's for everything? I mean when your under a time limit and fishing around for the right one .............................. Always gotta have extras of the small ones with most 1st barrel kills. I know I'm too stupid these days for sure.
Charlie
its really quite simple. First barrel left pocket, second barrel right
DT
Well yesterday I used Clever T4 in the first barrel and a cheap Jocker competition cartridge at €120 per thousand cheaper, or to make it even more stark I could buy nearly 1750 Jocker cartridges for the price of 1000 Clevers , in the second and the second barrel breaks were incredible they were shattering the targets when required. Not that I shot well but there were very good reasons for my failures but the cartridges were amazing. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if one of the many really good shots in the competition , who were breaking their targets much closer in, had used the Jocker cartridges they would not have had any problems making great scores. Side by side it is incredible to me that one cartridge could be so effective and yet cost a fraction of the other.
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Holianl
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I really like the jocker cartridge too, shame i cant find any around my area in thou's
westley
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
I know this will sound pussy but I really dislike having to fumble around getting carts outta the right pocket without some leisure in the process. And then there's always the possibility of getting the wrong carts in the proper pocket, couple guns are top first and a couple are bottom first and and - - - I mean there is just no end to itCharlie
its really quite simple. First barrel left pocket, second barrel right
DT
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