refing

Help Support :

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

paul b

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
946
Location
staffordshire
The bizare trap rituall of having shooters refing left me gobsmacked on sunday,i didnt here the whole argument so cant fairly expand,save to say no one is going for a day shooting to have confrontation.All reg shoots have a jury if your not happy take your problem to the jury .

 
The argument has raged on for a long time and the reasons for it. 

Witnessed an issue on Sunday where the ref clearly did not know the rules regarding misfire on second barrel when the first shot is missed. What was more worrying was the GB vest wearing shooter (albeit a junior who has been to at least two international shoots abroad) didn't know the rule either. The shooter asked if they should only put one cartridge in to which the ref replied 'yes'.   The shooter then proceeded to shot at the target as if a first barrel...and promptly missed.

The assembled gallery tutted, all looked at each other and raised eyes to the heavens.

Read the sodding rules...especially if you are shooting for GB!

DT

 
I've never liked the idea of other shooters refing in a comp they are shooting in themselves. A ref should be totally impartial and independent. Yes I know how things work,but I've never been happy with it. Yes I know that refs have to be paid for and some shooters don't like the extra cost.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
said it many times before so I won't repeat it again .......

 
Only ever had to do this once at an east Midlands inter counties ABT. Hopefully never again I scored a target lost and the shooter said it was killed all his mates agreed with him but I was certain it was lost so stuck my ground. If looks could kill I wouldn't be writing this now. Spoilt the day really but I understand what a tough job Reffing is and I never argue and always accept their decision.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
very few people enjoy reffing, many are put off trap by the very thought of it. .... Dam it I said I wouldn't repeat past posts :)

 
very few people enjoy reffing, many are put off trap by the very thought of it. .... Dam it I said I wouldn't repeat past posts :)
Yes Ian, an old subject mate! I hate ref work, I would rather pay a little extra and have a proper ref personally.

 
me too mate. Although dtl shoots manage same price and a ref.

anyone who thinks the reffing mallarkey does not put folk off shooting trap other than dtl is deluded Imo

 
me too mate. Although dtl shoots manage same price and a ref.

anyone who thinks the reffing mallarkey does not put folk off shooting trap other than dtl is deluded Imo
Well I've certainly heard that many times.

 
Only ever had to do this once at an east Midlands inter counties ABT. Hopefully never again I scored a target lost and the shooter said it was killed all his mates agreed with him but I was certain it was lost so stuck my ground. If looks could kill I wouldn't be writing this now. Spoilt the day really but I understand what a tough job Reffing is and I never argue and always accept their decision.
To some degree that is the benefit of having three officials as all three should be watching the targets so the ref can consult on a disputed target. A single ref has little chance against a squad of mates...just like sporting apparently?

Dont disagree with the idea that the ref is a paid, impartial individual but they should still be backed up by two others. Where are you going to find enough none shooters who really know the rules? At the UT Euro's and Worlds they have paid refs but shooters are still expected to officiate.

DT

 
Bird (or target) again...two shots, intentionally miss with the first, attempt kill with second shot.

Arse of a rule!

Surely someone stepped in to make known the unintentional mistake?

 
Southern counties always had paid refs backed up by two shooters, it didnt make it any better because of it, attitudes came into play.......

If the number of entries was bigger then paying refs would be no problem, so its a six of one and half a dozen of the other, will the entries come if they dont have to ref??

I dont think as many as believed, because people coming from DTL say whom are used to shooting 90+ dont like the feeling of suddenly shooting mid 80's scores, OT is perceived by many as very hard, so they wont give it a go...

Go to Italy for instance, payed refs on all decent shoots as the entries are large and the grounds can afford to do it...

So would it work, who knows......

The argument has raged on for a long time and the reasons for it. 

Witnessed an issue on Sunday where the ref clearly did not know the rules regarding misfire on second barrel when the first shot is missed. What was more worrying was the GB vest wearing shooter (albeit a junior who has been to at least two international shoots abroad) didn't know the rule either. The shooter asked if they should only put one cartridge in to which the ref replied 'yes'.   The shooter then proceeded to shot at the target as if a first barrel...and promptly missed.

The assembled gallery tutted, all looked at each other and raised eyes to the heavens.

Read the sodding rules...especially if you are shooting for GB!

DT
Bit sad really when this happens, the rules for reff choice, 1st should be a GB or home countries shooter, then it goes down in class after that, but 90% dont know the rules, its to the shooters advantage to know them, it used to be par for the course that you knew them for whatever discipline.  I remember being taught second shot misfire drill, and practising it, (when shells were not as good as now)....  It just leaves big holes in the grass if you get it wrong.......

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bird (or target) again...two shots, intentionally miss with the first, attempt kill with second shot.

Arse of a rule!

Surely someone stepped in to make known the unintentional mistake?
This was in another post a couple of weeks ago, some was asking about it. Happened to me on Compak single rabbit.

I said it then and ill say it now stupid stupid rule. However some think its very good and fair so to them I say keep shooting at the air.

 
Stupid rule or not, it is still the rule and every shooter should be aware of it ..and all the others which could affect their score. I've had to explain it a few times while reffing in registered comps in the last couple of years. The shooter tends to look back in disbelief :)  I recall one occasion when the shooter promptly hit the repeat target with the first barrel followed by 'beeeeep' !

I can understand the recreational OT/UT shooter not bothering to read the rules but I was somewhat mystified that a GB shooter didn't know it. Would have thought it would be compulsory reading for the Pathway students??

If you are going to shot UT/OT then there is a good chance you will be handed the button one day. Good enough reason to read the rule book me thinks.

As an aside last weekend one of the men's finalists (a very experienced shooter) lost a target during the 6 man semi-final by loading the single cartridge in the top barrel. Mount, call, click, hand gun to ref, open, Doh!!, beeeep!

DT

 
Southern counties always had paid refs backed up by two shooters, it didnt make it any better because of it, attitudes came into play.......

If the number of entries was bigger then paying refs would be no problem, so its a six of one and half a dozen of the other, will the entries come if they dont have to ref??

I dont think as many as believed, because people coming from DTL say whom are used to shooting 90+ dont like the feeling of suddenly shooting mid 80's scores, OT is perceived by many as very hard, so they wont give it a go...

Go to Italy for instance, payed refs on all decent shoots as the entries are large and the grounds can afford to do it...

So would it work, who knows......

Bit sad really when this happens, the rules for reff choice, 1st should be a GB or home countries shooter, then it goes down in class after that, but 90% dont know the rules, its to the shooters advantage to know them, it used to be par for the course that you knew them for whatever discipline.  I remember being taught second shot misfire drill, and practising it, (when shells were not as good as now)....  It just leaves big holes in the grass if you get it wrong.......
The BICTSF rule for refereeing is in order:

Qualified referee (some shooters are), GB team member, Home Country National team member then lettered classes from A to D.  The trouble is very often the most qualified person of the three due to referee makes a dash for the scorecard leaving the other two to slug it out over who cops the buzzer.  Very often, the same said most qualified person, is the most vocal when something goes wrong in the refereeing department for his/her squad. 

 
The BICTSF rule for refereeing is in order:

Qualified referee (some shooters are), GB team member, Home Country National team member then lettered classes from A to D.  The trouble is very often the most qualified person of the three due to referee makes a dash for the scorecard leaving the other two to slug it out over who cops the buzzer.  Very often, the same said most qualified person, is the most vocal when something goes wrong in the refereeing department for his/her squad. 
The rationale I find odd for choosing a ref.  Just because you can hit them doesn't  necessarily mean you know how to score them.

 
The assistant referees are there to score. The main referee interprets the rules and judges the targets. ie foot position, 12 second window for target, immediate release, malfunctions also behaviour warnings.

 
The rationale I find odd for choosing a ref.  Just because you can hit them doesn't  necessarily mean you know how to score them.
The scoring of hits and losses is relatively simple it's the additional rules that people fall down on, anyone representing their country should know them simply to safeguard themselves in the event of a problem when they're competing either at home or abroad.   

 
Back
Top