20G Vs 12G Choke pattern

Anybody able to give a view on how a 20g choke compares to a 12g.

I shot a round with a 20g with multichokes. Not knowing what to put in I picked the ususl 1/4 & 1/2. 

 What surprised me was how hard the long targets were hit. 

The load was 28g of 7.5 plastic wads. So similar to the normal 12g loads. They erre extreamly smooth to shoot too. I was expecting a bit of pain from a 6 1/4lb  gun. 

Question is;  Choke fot choke do 20g pattern tighter or the same  than a 12g given similar loads? 

Does half = half etc. 

I have never tested them, but was lead (oops) to believe by a gun shop that 20g patterns tighter than 12 in the same choke and that the shot string with the same weight of shot is longer.

Paul120 said:

Anybody able to give a view on how a 20g choke compares to a 12g.

I shot a round with a 20g with multichokes. Not knowing what to put in I picked the ususl 1/4 & 1/2. 

 What surprised me was how hard the long targets were hit. 

The load was 28g of 7.5 plastic wads. So similar to the normal 12g loads. They erre extreamly smooth to shoot too. I was expecting a bit of pain from a 6 1/4lb  gun. 

Question is;  Choke fot choke do 20g pattern tighter or the same  than a 12g given similar loads? 

Does half = half etc. 

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I am not aware of the table of pattern percentages being different from one gauge to another i.e, they are supposed to equate to one another in an ideal world but the truth is we just don't know for sure because we have not had any meaningful tests done side by side and in equal loads (remember they'd have to first make sure that the so called half in one 20 bore for instance, actually is half by measuring the inside bore against the supplied choke.)

It's definitely no surprise that you found the gun gave good breaks because you were actually using the same load as you would a 12g, it's an interesting subject because although it is plausible that the length of shot string could vary measurably from one gauge to another my flabber would be ghasted immeasurably if anyone could detect such tiny differences in practice - in  a blind test  :wink: . 

What for instance we don't know is whether when they first made interchangeable chokes for the smaller bore they made any effort to see what constriction actually threw what and based their products on those findings (which would be the correct thing to do  :smile: ) or did they just casually copy the 12 bore ? 

For what it's worth I personally do not believe that like for like the small bores offer any sort of ballistic advantage in any shape or form, if they did people would have cottoned on and used them in competition.

The smaller gauges have always patterned tighter with same choke(markings anyway) as a 12.

When I got my last SC3 I had it made with 12 and 20 barrels, The 12 was 9/10 and 11/10 the twenty was supposed to be multi and 9/10, it came as 10/10 and multi, so Ruag had to get the bottom barrel teagued,

So I patterned the gun many times with different loads and chokes in the 20,   at 35yds through the 12's the best patterns were with Golden trap or F2 Flash, nice full 30" circle at the distance.  (all 24g),  with the twenty and flash 20g, I got approx a 12-18" circle with 3/4 and a soot smear with full, ended up with 1/2 and 5/8 and that was still a tad tighter than the 12g.

Why dont many people use the smaller gauges,  the shells are too expensive to use in volume, (quality ones that is)

The Italians have major 20g championships....

cannot see any advantage  using a 20 bore shotgun for clays  too light especially using 28g cartridges  madness !   not to mention cost .    

Hamster is spot on.  There is no advantage of any sort associated with using a smaller bore than 12.  I suppose that a case could be made with the 24gm rule in effect but Perazzi made/makes a competition 20 that is obviously the answer to that question and guess who cares?  OK - nobody.  Why should I burden myself with all of the problematic aspects of using a 20ga when there is no compensating advantage?

Oh - here we go - - ISSF could outlaw 12ga for international comps.  Or set a max gun weight of say 3kg   Just as reasonable as banning release triggers.  

Thanks for the comments.

I agree that a 20b is no replacement for  a 12b. It was just that I had chance to buy one that is lightweight for a decent price for my Son to have a go with. 

As you do,  I decided to have a play and was just curious about the similarities in choke. If just looked like I was getting Full choke kills with 1/2 choke. I shot 28g catts as that was what was avIlable. Have to say though that recoil was a lof less than I was expecting from a 6lb gun. With 21g it should be an excellent starter gun.

Being used to  an 8lb +  gun I found it difficult on some targets to get the gun speed right. 

dr. lecter said:

cannot see any advantage  using a 20 bore shotgun for clays  too light especially using 28g cartridges  madness !   not to mention cost .  

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It is not always so much a case of 'advantage' but more a case of necessity. As you know I am just returning to clay shooting after a shoulder job, that has kept me away since last April. I was advised by the Surgeon NOT to shoot until next month and to be quite honest, I could not have shot anyway. However I had a pheasant day booked in January and was determined to go. I began doing exercises with the Grandkids 28 bore in the hopes that I may use that. I was then able to lift my Beretta 20 bore (6lbs 2ozs. fixed choke, a known 1/4 and 1/2). Using that on a 35 yardish high tower with 21 gram cartridges it blitzed clays, IF I could keep it going. My Miroku weighs 8 1/4 lbs. I realised just how easy it is to stop a 20 bore compared to the 12 and feel that could be the reason they are not so popular on the clay scene. I know that 20 bores of 8lbs are available, but you may as well use a 12 and have a better choice of cartridges anyway. I have last week and today shot my Beretta 303 12 bore in readiness for West Mids on 31/03/16 and I am finding the 7 1/4 lbs. a bit of a handful, but would prefer to use that over the 20 bore. On the pheasant day, I managed a 3 for 1 average for the day with 25 gram 6's.but that is a totally different ball game, as they say !

My personal opinion is as others have said that 12bore is king of the clays unless its for small framed people and youths who may struggle with the physical weight of 12`s.

I would how ever really like to see comps held for smaller calibres such as 20bore with a restriction on cartridge size of say 21 gram.

Where 20bore comes in real nice is in the shooting field on game especally where theres alot of walking !

ATB

Matt

I bought my son an Mk70 20 bore to learn to shoot clays with.  I used that gun for a season on driven game using 28gram 6 cartridges.  Using 1/4-Half chokes I was nearly cutting birds in half with it at 25m.   What I was picking up convinced me to go to cylinder and quarter.  I did that and shot my highest ever pheasant stone dead.  The tighter chokes in a 20 hold their pattern a long long way out.  

Geordieboy said:

I bought my son an Mk70 20 bore to learn to shoot clays with.  I used that gun for a season on driven game using 28gram 6 cartridges.  Using 1/4-Half chokes I was nearly cutting birds in half with it at 25m.   What I was picking up convinced me to go to cylinder and quarter.  I did that and shot my highest ever pheasant stone dead.  The tighter chokes in a 20 hold their pattern a long long way out.  

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It sounds very much like the half choke was too much for 25 yard pheasants, exactly the same applies to 12 gauge, if you think about this rationally it is nothing to do with gauge and everything to do with distance V density. It remains to be seen how impressively the 20 gauge holds its pattern at range compared to other bores but anything around 70% inside a 30" circle at 40 yards is Full choke performance and any bore can be made to produce this with the right choke/load. To be quantifiably better the 20 or 28g for that matter would have to routinely produce 80-85% (with Full or 3/4 as preferred) as a rule to deserve special mention and I have a feeling they won't. 

Paul120 said:

Thanks for the comments.

I agree that a 20b is no replacement for  a 12b. It was just that I had chance to buy one that is lightweight for a decent price for my Son to have a go with.

As you do,  I decided to have a play and was just curious about the similarities in choke. If just looked like I was getting Full choke kills with 1/2 choke. I shot 28g catts as that was what was avIlable. Have to say though that recoil was a lof less than I was expecting from a 6lb gun. With 21g it should be an excellent starter gun.

Being used to  an 8lb +  gun I found it difficult on some targets to get the gun speed right.

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In that case, GET IT BOUGHT and enjoy playing with what can be an enjoyable experience, just do not expect it to put you in AA Class ! (It patterns too tight for that   :angel: )