OT gun weight

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Les53

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I was recently watching some OT shooting on ISSF/You Tube, before the start of the comp a list of things appears on the screen, it gives details about shot weight, shot size, clay size etc. It also showed gun weight ....4KG!! Well I was not aware that the ISSF had imposed a weight limit on guns, or have I misunderstood something? Can anyone (Fred..40UP ?) shed some light on this please, I cannot find any info about it online. If we do now have a weight limit on guns, how long will it be before we are told what make of gun we can use, how long our barrels can be, what make of shells we can use?  Any ideas or thoughts guys?

 
No limit on gun weight, its for the non shooters, to gain an idea on the equipment used.

Ideal weight is usually taken by barrel weight in the 1560 region and balance on the pin.....

 
Les

I suspect it was just an example figure to give the none shooting viewers an indication of the typical weight of a shotgun, although I suspect they were half a kilo out as 3.5Kg would be nearer the mark.

As for your other points I can't see it happening anytime soon due to commercial constraints, although a move to 21 gram might stop the run of very high scores we have seen recently. At the end of the day while the gun and cartridges play an important, albeit small part in the overall package, the shooters natural ability and mental strength are far more important.

DT

 
Ah right, the info is for non shooters! I thought maybe they had been buggering about with things!

 
As for your other points I can't see it happening anytime soon due to commercial constraints, although a move to 21 gram might stop the run of very high scores we have seen recently. At the end of the day while the gun and cartridges play an important, albeit small part in the overall package, the shooters natural ability and mental strength are far more important.

Greg for a while now I have been saying that a move to the lighter load would probably negate the need for a two barrel discipline to suddenly become a single barrel one. I would say that the very best will still be able to make near perfect scores but it would mean that to break the target the shooting would have to be just that bit more precise and should make the difference. I think the current situation is not always fair on the competitor who has shot really well in the qualification phase, not that it is ever likely to have any bearing on what I may do...  I think I can miss just as easily with a 28g as I do with the 24g. Of course though one always does have to recognise that shooters have great differences in ability and perhaps moving to the lighter load may just totally frustrate those lesser shooters and drive them away? On the other hand if moving to a lighter load extends the echelon as it were then it could be good.

 
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John

They could always stick another 5 metres onto the targets! That would sort a few out in the short term but they would soon adapt as some practice on 85 metre targets anyway. I guess the downside would be the targets would have to become more robust (to cope with the greater forces involved) which would mean breaking them gets even harder. Or just make them use 21 gram loads :)  Maybe they should go back to 28 gram but make the targets 'middies' instead of full size targets.

It's all irrelevant to me as I can't hit the b*stards with 28 gram !!

Making it a single barrel discipline would probably end up with those hideous single barrel guns so can't see it going that way, for a while at least anyhow.

As for the finals system that one has been done to death before.

DT

 
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why make it harder for the masses just because the elite who train daily can shoot 97s ?

no one says make dtl harder just because shoots are won with 300s ...... It don't make sense to me .

 
If they need to make it harder, why don't they just increase the distance from the shooter to the trap, leaving the speed the same?

Or use a midi, or even a mini clay?

Oh hang on! That's called Sporting isn't it?  :angel:

(That should do it????)........................Head down, I'm off! 

 
We tested some Remington RXP from the 32gm days last week.. Target just disappeared.

 
Scores are no higher now than they have been previously, it's just that we have some very consistent shooters at the moment.

as example JRB (RIP) shot 175 straight on his last seven rounds in 1968, if you look back through numerous 200 bird shoots, there are a large number of 125 straight and 150's.

The schemes are easier now than they were, as we have reduced angles on pegs 1 and 5, so that grounds can fit layouts closer together.

The format wont change much, not at least till after 2020 at the soonest, as the television companies like it (they pay the money to the IOC), after London the veiwing figures were so good that shooting in its current format got moved up the grading ladder for inclusion in future games. If the ratings drop and shooting gets downgraded then changes will happen fairly quickly...

 
To be honest Fred when I was 'on um' yesterday they were disappearing with 28 gram F3's. Just wasn't 'on um' enough :(

As for making OT harder for the pro's, surely that's what the single barrel final system is all about. Not many straights in the finals.

DT

 
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why make it harder for the masses just because the elite who train daily can shoot 97s ?

no one says make dtl harder just because shoots are won with 300s ...... It don't make sense to me .
A very good point and one I made also. However if moving to a lighter load in some way could stretch the echelon a bit it could be worth it in a competitive sense. It is a bit of a difficult situation because normally the elite drive the sport in terms of rules.

Interesting what 40UP reports because I was thinking  about the 28g vs 24g debate the other day in relation to choke but then using 32g illustrates it even better, with that sort of load I would be willing to bet you could use 1/4 choke I the first barrel and still get dust. What I am saying in effect is that most people shoot their guns with too tight a choke for a 28g loading and that 1/2 choke would maybe be a better first barrel option for most average shooters competing in UT and  even 1/2 or probably 5/8 better for OT. Sorry this is not quite on topic but an interesting thought  perhaps. Not much good if you have a fixed choke gun though?

 
as mutley says we currently have an elite group from most country's who are pro. Scores from them will be good by definition. I do not believe the job got harder or scores dropped off when the 24g rule came into play.

john is correct the single barrel format for the final is the real test.

 
A very good point and one I made also. However if moving to a lighter load in some way could stretch the echelon a bit it could be worth it in a competitive sense. It is a bit of a difficult situation because normally the elite drive the sport in terms of rules.

Interesting what 40UP reports because I was thinking  about the 28g vs 24g debate the other day in relation to choke but then using 32g illustrates it even better, with that sort of load I would be willing to bet you could use 1/4 choke I the first barrel and still get dust. What I am saying in effect is that most people shoot their guns with too tight a choke for a 28g loading and that 1/2 choke would maybe be a better first barrel option for most average shooters competing in UT and  even 1/2 or probably 5/8 better for OT. Sorry this is not quite on topic but an interesting thought  perhaps. Not much good if you have a fixed choke gun though?
Back in the 32grm days John, there were quite a few using Full and Extra Full, often in Brownings that came up at about 7.5 lb!!! When I first started clay shooting there were only 32grm loads as far as I can remember, unless you were a wildfowler or something. In which case a lot of those used to shoot home loads, probably full of bits of lead from the local church roof!  :D

 
"Making it a single barrel discipline would probably end up with those hideous single barrel guns so can't see it going that way, for a while at least anyhow."

Not really what I meant I was of course referring to the fact that a two barrel event becomes a single barrel one in the finals these days... why? Just to get a result? I just don't get the single barrel final at all the game is for two barrels full use of the gun why change to a completely different discipline for the final competitors to sort out the winner, if there is going to be that sort of final why not just go single barrel and weed out the dross from the start ? the bit at the end is very much tongue in cheek. Is it a coincidence that MD has won very little since the new format has come along?

 
some folk have very dependable second barrells. Same in DTL trouble is no one with a dependable second barrel ever wins at DTL.

just saying

 
some folk have very dependable second barrells. Same in DTL trouble is no one with a dependable second barrel ever wins at DTL.

just saying
My thought as well but OT is a two barrel game and should be in the final as well so people with good second barrels do who well I quali should be able to continue that in the final and all the scores should count. I have to say though that all of this would make no difference to me as I am not in that league it is purely an observation. What I would really like to know is what those who have stake in the proceedings think are they happy with the situation? I suspect that there must be broad agreement that the situation is OK?

 
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My suspect not from the competitors view point!! As has been said some shooters have a very dependable (and needed) second barrel in qualification and they are being penalised in the new medal match format. MD is a case in point.

DT

 
I would really like to know WTF it is that thinks there are too many high scores???  The current shoot-off scheme limits the fields and just how often is it that anyone is inconvenienced with the current scheme??  Who GAF if the scores are high and they aren't that universally high anyway!  So what if someone manages a straight?  BFD!!  So they get in the shoot-off and a group hug for being wonderful.

And just to be clear on this, I think the current shoot-off thing is prolly the best compromise as it is functionally similar to other sports and it certainly finds a winner.  I mean the contest is not to find the best second barrel shooter but the BEST shooter.

There is no need to change ANYTHING!!

And JIC you haven't noticed there are already some shotgun restrictions in the rules.  Other disciplines have LOTS!  You folks sure get your panties in a twist about some strange things.

just saying' .................

 
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