ISSF Junior world championships

Wow.. Well done Nathan joint top score on 122.

Deserved bertter than the final placing decided by the joke that they call "The Final"

The quicker they get rid of that pantomime the better imo. 

Totally agree Paul. Work you nuts off for three days, beat everyone else and come away with zip.

Same happened in the Girls event. Jess Moore qualified second and finished 4th in the finals.

DT

my jury still out on the final system but not worth worrying my pretty head over as i doubt it will ever effect me.

Know what you mean although probably worth trying a single barrel round of practice at Sealand.....just in case!!

I believe they got the kids to shoot a single barrel round at the Talent Pathway recently. Some hit zero!! No pressure there then !!

Interesting how the pressure of a single barrel final can affect some. I bet most of Nathan's qualification targets were hit first barrel but come the final he bombed with a 9 ex 15. Same for Jess in the bronze medal match with a 6 ex 15. One of the girl qualifiers hit a 5 in the finals!!

Never shot one so cannot comment on the pressure but fairly obvious it is considerable. Valuable learning experience for all of them though.

Bloody well done to both of them for making the finals.  

DT

I have shot single barrell final a few months ago at an OT memorial shoot and I can report that it does your head in, in a big way. Used to shoot sb dtl and that was hard enough.

I hear that.

At the recent UT English open there was a shoot off for second place in the seniors. Both shooters posted a 25 straight in the first round of the shoot off (full 25 round with both barrels to count). Then it went into a single barrel, miss and out shoot-off. I think it went to 3 or 4 targets before one missed.

DT

yes its very very disconcerting but of course the top lads and ladies will practice for it us mere mortals are shell shocked by it.

Definitely a head game when you get into the final. Especially when you hit ISSF WC/ECH/WCH etc since they have a huge clock that you are aware of that counts down from 12 so you know how much time you have left to shoot. Not only that but people in finals tend to shoot the target ENTIRELY differently than when they are in the normal qualification. In qualification they take their time and shoot as they normally would. In the final everyone seems to go all out and tries to shoot the target far to quickly which usually results in a loss. Also people tend to have their heads minced by the fact they are putting one shell in the gun. Everything about the gun is the same but the visual factor of seeing yourself put only one shell in the gun which then gets pushed to your sub-concious and you may not be thinking about it but you can be, sometimes, that the little Einstein back their has "sharpened" up your trigger pull just a fraction of a second because that will help...but it won't. 

Very interesting Andrew. I wonder how many finalists pull the trigger twice even though they only have one loaded?

DT

ips said:

my jury still out on the final system but not worth worrying my pretty head over as i doubt it will ever effect me.

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It will certainly never get to my level either BUT as has been mentioned every time this topic comes up, it ain't no different than any other sport/competition.  What you do in the trials only gets you into the final.  I'm not sure about the single barrel stuff BUT few shooters are gonna get to the final w/ 23 2nd barrels.  Modern OT folks are just too good at it to have both barrels in the finals.  All shooting is a head game.  The great shooters do just fine with one barrel.  Man UP! 

And it is a tense show those finals.  

JMO of course

agreed Charlie bit like dtl or Ata in as much as a straight only gets you in a shoot off. Not a brilliant analogy but the only one I have at the moment

Yeah - like running a world record time in the heats and losing in the final.  

Why make a game where shooters in hours of practice hone their skills to become great with the second barrel when required... then for reasons mainly due to media coverage of the event remove the very skill they have been developing? Very odd! Why not change the game and make it single barrel from the outset and let those shooters concentrate on shooting what the need to win the final? The only reason that this format has come about is to make the game in some way exciting to a non competitor. I don't think that shooters found the old system of shooting events boring or uninspiring the only reason for the present setup is media coverage of the sport... now that can be viewed as being good or bad for the game depending on the individual. One thing I will say about the way these comps are shot is that I personally have only ever heard the views of non competitors about the way the outcome is decided what do the competitors think? By the way when I say competitors I mean those who shot the final not those who just entered knowing the rules.

I see what you're getting at. But in my eyes it's like getting to the final of the 100m but then asking them to Hop on one leg for 15m then doing it again. The one that doesn't fall over and embarrass themselves wins.  

I've watched one of these finals and jeeze was it boring.  

Even on thr ISSF videos the stands are empty and be honest how many watch the videos without skipping to just watch somebodys technique and the final shots. 

Dog Tyred said:

Very interesting Andrew. I wonder how many finalists pull the trigger twice even though they only have one loaded?

DT

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You could hear the hammer for the second barrel fall on Michael Diamonds gun during the 2012 olympic final. 

So just what would be a reasonable and fair finals format?  Aside from just shooting another few hundred targets?  Miss n out?  Two zeros, three zeros, points per target like DTL?

Shooting 200 targets always seemed to find a winner.. if they want to mske it more TV friendly then resquad after 150 and then again after 175 putting the to scores on the final squads to shoot.  Works in golf.

I think there are a couple of questions I ask

1. What do the people taking part in these competitions think of the game format, I am talking finalists here not those on the outside looking in.

2. If the fact that shooters now have become so good at their game they are needing to have some sort of handicap to arrest their game would it not be a better idea to limit the load of shot available to the competitor rather than change the game? I suggested before that it may be time for the load to be dropped from 24g to 21g but still allowing both tubes through the competition. I was shouted down but I believe that lowering the load would allow the most accurate shooter to win the competition without changing the fact that it is a two barrel competition. You have to recognise that the reason the present situation has arisen is because, for some reason, the non competitors have been given more importance than they deserve. I know if I was in a competition I would not want the format to be changed just to create a winner in the shortest time possible I would be in for the long term and to be the best shooter.

Paul120 said:

Shooting 200 targets always seemed to find a winner.. if they want to mske it more TV friendly then resquad after 150 and then again after 175 putting the to scores on the final squads to shoot.  Works in golf.

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Sounds OK but I would have to wonder - do the shooters want that?  Why not resquad after 100? etc ..........  And then the miss n out after 200?  Start weeding sooner and maybe the time element would even out.

John - I'm not sure just what the "present situation" is that needs resolution.  It is a workable scheme and produces results.  Why does it need fooking with?  And 21gms?  puuuuuhleze

Wonko the Sane said:

Sounds OK but I would have to wonder - do the shooters want that?  Why not resquad after 100? etc ..........  And then the miss n out after 200?  Start weeding sooner and maybe the time element would even out.

John - I'm not sure just what the "present situation" is that needs resolution.  It is a workable scheme and produces results.  Why does it need fooking with?  And 21gms?  puuuuuhleze

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First off Charlie I never actually meant that I thought there was or is a problem with the present system.. the OP obviously does though and my post is just a comment on how if a "fairer" way of running the events could be achieved, I could have said "perceived problem". If you read I have asked if anybody has even canvased opinion of those who it effect namely the top class shots that make these finals... indeed they may very well be totally happy with the system. What I do take out of this thread that some of the correspondents don't think it is fair. As to 21g it is a suggestion based on the purely fact that the less lead in the cart the more accurate a shot you must be to break the target so the may  be a better chance to have a two barrel comp from start to finish... which I strangely enough think it should be, in fact that is my only grip with the present situation which has nothing to do with the shooter and everything to do with spectators... are there any? I have only ever watched these videos to try and get a better idea of how really good shooters approach the game, the outcome... I could not give a tinkers to be honest.