The future of ABT

Is it time to look at the Ball Trap and decide for once and for all what is this Discipline is about.

Is it a stepping stone for DTL shooters to OT or is it a backstop for failed OT shooters.

One thing sure it's a dying game and something needs to be decided.

Les will be along shortly

I've a few trap shooting years under my belt after starting on DTL.

When I decided to change to the faster trap disciplines that's exactly what I did along with quite a few of my contemporaries, no ABT halfway house, it was a straight swap to ABT, UT and OT and that's all we shoot today.

The same is probably true today, no one thinks I'd better shoot ABT before moving to OT, they just get on with it.

I think the decision to reduce the max angle thrown from 45° to 32.5° was pointless and has taken away some of the enjoyment of shooting ABT.

I don't understand why you should make the comment about failed OT shooters.

I think that ABT was indeed considered a natural progression towards OT for many not just because of the level of difficulty (ie abt used to be slightly easier than ot) but because of the fact that ABT used to be more available than it is now. ABT is no more, what we have now is Automatic Ball Trench. Traps further back, shooting out of a trench, different foot positions required on each peg, OT speed targets yes the angles are reduced but it still equates to a 50 ish degree target from one and five. Easier than OT ...... many of us now consider ABT to be harder than OT.

IMO the rot set in all those years ago when the straight line was introduced.

ABT is a testing discipline not for the faint hearted or anyone who utters the immortal words of "targets aren't fare I could have all difficult ones blah blah blah" grow a pare just shoot what comes out.

I love ABT

And there a great crowd

PS

oooh forgot to say 6 easy

I can understand why ABT is shot because using only one trap is a cheap format but it makes no real sense for the point of view of competitive shooting because the competitors don't shoot the same targets. That is in my view its only down fall, however if those taking part in a comp are happy enough to accept that who cares? I also agree with what philr says re taking on any discipline, I had never shot any clay targets before I started with ABT, UT and OT I just had to accept the at the beginning a hell of a lot of them were in the next department before I got my shot away... which still happens far too often at the moment

ABT is a testing discipline not for the faint hearted or anyone who utters the immortal words of "targets aren't fare I could have all difficult ones blah blah blah" grow a pare just shoot what comes out.

exactly my point you are happy enough to shoot knowing the game is not a level playing field that is fine however many others want to be able to compare what they achieved directly with another competitors score. If for example we took a situation where in OT the targets came from the fosse on the basis that you shot what flew out... only an idiot would agree that was a fair and equitable way of arranging a competitive game... competitor A gets 3 straight aways and 9 extreme left/rights competitor B get 8 straight aways and 4 left/rights how do you score that it is supposed to be a test of ability!

DTL isn't 'fair' either but I don't hear all this snivelling about them.

Most of the comments in ABT are clubhouse jests aimed at those who straight a line, and of course it's obvious they got the simple targets. All my straights are achieved this way and of course Ian Peel's 200 ex 200 was a simple case of this, no shooting skill involved at all.

Just in case anyone believes this here's a smiley for you

Of course you are right phil BUT when a situation exists where such comments can be validly made you will get them. I don't think anybody could possibly question the skill of someone who has just hit 25 targets straight... but the competitor on the same squad who hit 24 might want to know what targets were thrown for each. That is why I say as a competitive game it does not make a lot of sense... does not mean that it is not fun to shoot though.

We've been here many time before. Still waiting for a trap manufacturer to develop a filly automated ABT trap that throws fixed schemes (various) rather than fully random targets. Maybe ABT would become more popular as a competition discipline if they removed the perceived 'unfairness' of the targets? 

Oh and make it 24g as well

DT

ABT is abt targets are random It's not ot or ut it's abt shoot it don't shoot it end of.

Phil

I watched our friends 200 at English open 98 ish I was in noe team. Wow stunning performance and I never heard anyone say he had all easy targets.

What folk have to realise is that over 200 targets the law of averages surely mean it evens out and if it doesn't then tuff cos it's abt and not for pussies END OF.

jwpzx9r said:

Of course you are right phil BUT when a situation exists where such comments can be validly made you will get them. I don't think anybody could possibly question the skill of someone who has just hit 25 targets straight... but the competitor on the same squad who hit 24 might want to know what targets were thrown for each. That is why I say as a competitive game it does not make a lot of sense... does not mean that it is not fun to shoot though.

Click to expand...

I think the shooter who shot 24 should look inwardly at himself and why he missed the one target, not what targets anyone else had.

It is a RANDOM discipline, there's no secret to it, that's why we shoot it, that's the fun in it, we don't know what we're going to shoot next.  I like the random competitiveness and competitive it is. 

Comments about targets thrown, unless to query the trap settings for height, distance or angle, aren't valid.

If someone is so anal about what clays everyone else is getting then ABT isn't for them, they can go play at OT or UT and they'll find something to belly ache about them too.  

Oldabt said:

Is it time to look at the Ball Trap and decide for once and for all what is this Discipline is about.

Is it a stepping stone for DTL shooters to OT or is it a backstop for failed OT shooters.

One thing sure it's a dying game and something needs to be decided.

Click to expand...

You've made a statement 'something needs to be decided' give us a clue as to what you think should be done.

It'd be interesting to know where you are as your profile is a little sparse.

philr said:

It is a RANDOM discipline, there's no secret to it, that's why we shoot it, that's the fun in it, we don't know what we're going to shoot next.  I like the random competitiveness and competitive it is. 

Comments about targets thrown, unless to query the trap settings for height, distance or angle, aren't valid.

If someone is so anal about what clays everyone else is getting then ABT isn't for them, they can go play at OT or UT and they'll find something to belly ache about them too.

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THIS ^ ^ ^ and a very big LIKE

What Phil is trying to say is "ITS NOT FOR PUSSIES"

philr said:

You've made a statement 'something needs to be decided' give us a clue as to what you think should be done.

It'd be interesting to know where you are as your profile is a little sparse.

Click to expand...

I have been guilty (as has les53) of moaning about new fangled ABT not what it was in the old days blah blah. But I have to say I have kind of got used to it now and apart from anything else you cant turn the clock back, it is what it is at this moment in time, and it is still my absolute favourite discipline. You can even use them great big stonking 28g loads

Dog Tyred said:

We've been here many time before. Still waiting for a trap manufacturer to develop a filly automated ABT trap that throws fixed schemes (various) rather than fully random targets. Maybe ABT would become more popular as a competition discipline if they removed the perceived 'unfairness' of the targets? 

Oh and make it 24g as well

DT

Click to expand...

Thing is Greg we already have a dumbed down, fare and none random fast trap discipline for old men and softies ...... its called UT

ABT is a cheap discipline for small clubs to put on which gives you OT targets for minimal cost therefore it makes the faster trap accessible for novice shooters to cut there teeth. Then they get hooked and move to the afforsaid softie disciplines before realising that ABT is were its at and come back to the fold. In the early 90s I moved full time to ABT and shot nothing but for over a decade but of course there was more of it then.

To answer the OP question.

Allow ABT to be shot from a DTL circle or a straight line this will allow many more clubs to hold it. (and it doesn't make a huge difference anyway) Lower the speed to 70m increase the angle back to 45 degree, get rid of the springing teal. And if you want to attract more shooters THE biggest single thing that puts people off is having to ref of this there is no doubt in my mind so do away with that and hey presto they WILL flock to it.

Anybody that thinks ABT is a soft version of OT may want to take a trip to the Dolphin shooting ground and then post back here. L.O.L.

Absolutely mate.

Hardest ABT your ever likely to find, sorts then men from the boys that's for sure

Ian

Like you, I really like shooting ABT (the current version as cannot remember the old one ) and I would rather shoot it over UT given the choice. No problems with random targets here. In fact its probably the only way I am ever going to get a 25 straight at anything! Would need 25 easy targets mind

The fact that it is not an recognised international discipline with euro and world champs prolly doesn't do it any favours. And yes I do know Faux Degla is having an ABT World Championship shoot this year but maybe that should be Faux World Championship ??

I hope to be there though.

DT

Yes the way I understand it is that as there is no official governing body then anyone can hold a World.

BUT big hats off and thank you to Mike for setting this up as it could be the start of something really really good for ABT.