12 replies to this topic

[JonSkeetAdmin]

I have just been looking through the ticketing and events for the 2012 Paralympics and noticed that there are no shotgun events. I was recently introduced to a really nice guy by Nicola, sorry the name escapes me that was doing all he could to get shotgun shooting for the disabed recognised. Now; being able bodied myself I haven't come up against any of the issues with the governing bodies, that said why should disabled shooters be prevented from competing with a shotgun at the paralympics? I have seen several wheelchair bound shooters, and other disabled both male and female compete alongside able bodied competitiors at CPSA events across trap, DTL, OT and Skeet quite often winning.  There seems to be a good mix of disability classifications. Does anyone know why these shooters in the UK and globally are not recognised as a group that should be able to compete at the top level, I can't see any reason why not!! Cheers, Jon.

[Nicola]

Wow this is a big topic.There is only rifle and pistol in the Paralympics at the moment. Paul P is the guy you met and he has been trying for years in conjunction with other countries to get a recognition for shotgun in the Olympics. First as a test event, with a view for it then being accepted as a new sport. This is like pushing water up hill.The Olympic authorities are wanting to reduce the sports and not increase them. So we all have to keep pushing it. There has just been a big event held in Italy (Terni) where several of our disabled shooters attended. Hopefully I will get the report and pictures sometime this week and Matt has mentioned the possibility of putting the report on the shootclay website.It is now up to Bob Kibblewhite to try to protect the disabled shooters interests as both a disabled shooter and an NGB Director, since I left. Disabled shooters have previously been strong in FITASC Sporting and also FITASC UT on the world circuit, but have had set backs due to politics.Here in the UK the DSG organises selection competitions for disabled shooters and many will compete each weekend against ablebodied shooters. UT is the only discipline that has allowed disabled shooters to have two seperate class categories of 'standing' and 'sitting' in their major the British Grand Prix. More should be done at Trap and Skeet majors. Afterall how expensive is a bronze, silver and Gold medal and a cup?Obviously sporting is a harder discipline to accomodate depending on the terain. But most committed disabled shooters will have helpers who 'get them to the stands'.In rifle shooting they actually have 'blind shooting' due to the 'hearing' technology involved in that sport.Sydney will you comment when you get a minute?  

[paul bailey]

I have just shot the 1st internationall disabled ot grand prix,and it was a great sucses.The italians made us very welcome and the shoot ran very smothley.This is the first step on the road to the paralympics and its probibly going to be a long one,but the contacts made in italy will mean that now there is a real chance to get a truly intrnationall feild of disabled clay shooters all shooting together.

[Nicola]

Hi Paul,How are you? How did it compare to the UT Worlds 2009?I asked Julie to do a write up on it and send me some pictures as well because Matt is going to put it on the website as a shoot report. They are very friendly at that club and my very good friend Katia is involved there.Paul Pantzer (Sussex) has been working on this for years, it is a long hard slog to even get a 'test event'. Did Luciano Rossi turn up for the federation at the prize giving? Glad you are posting on here. Hope to hear more of what is happening with you and the DSG.

[ShootClay Admin]

Definitely Paul - lovely to have you on board. Very happy to hear and publish news on the DSG - also happy to host a section on the forum here if there would be interest.

[paul bailey]

Thanks matt its a plesure to be part of your site.my writing and spelling are terrible(working at a shoot insteed of going school didnt help)so i will get julie to send you more indepth reports.Hi nicola i think all the top people were there,the disabled clay shooting movement in italy seems to have some very influential people behind it.I have shot a lot of disabled shoots all over europe and never seen a turn out like this,even a man from new zealand,australia and brazil.You all did a great job at the ut,but this was amazing and i only shoot sporting and still enjoyed it.I can see now that trap and ot especialy requre a lot off concentration so to be honest for the sake of others,whealchairs and things would be a distraction mixed in an  able bodeid shoot especialy if there was a big disabled entry.

[Nicola]

Paul it has never distracted me having a wheelchair shooter next to me, and why should it, if I am focused where I should be…….out down the layout. I have heard this said by abled-bodied shooters before and never liked it because the same goes for a disabled shooter if he has to shoot next to an able-bodied cartridge chucker, he could also be put off by cartridges pinging out of bins next to him. Plus I hate anybody being marginalised for no good reason.I though the excuse of the 'squeaking' wheelchair was the most crap thing I had ever heard for a shooter missing at the UT Worlds. My answer to them at the time was 1) grow up 2) shut up and 3) don't speak about this again until you have tried shooting from a wheelchair. The refs were quite sensible at the Worlds because after these 'unfortunate comments' we watched a few layouts and the head ref spotted things that were hindering the flow of the wheelchairs , like the cartridge box stands that needed moving just a few feet…..so he immediately went in and did it ….and they told the other refs how to check the layout before starting.This is a sport and everyone should live together harmoniously in it. How did you find the travelling and getting the guns and all your equipment through customs…..were they helpful or not. The Italian airports tend to differ across the country with the attitude from the customs people.What are your plans for next year? Any dates sorted yet?

Edited by Nicola, 15 September 2011 - 06:04 PM.

[paul bailey]

dead rite nicola if your focused you shouldnt here or see anything exept the target,but a lot of premadons are always looking for any excuse to find a reason for doing bad.The refs in all disciplines are usually fair and take pride in doing a good job for us shooters.The customs on rome were a bit complicated ,get gun from police,go to customs to stamp invite,back to police to check numbers stamp invite and photocopy everything 3times then on the way back you had to get a form from check in then to police then back to check in where you wate for security to take you to see the gun go into the lift to bagage.Never had this at other places but if the airlines made us aware of what we need to do then it wouldnt be a problem.Perhaps we as a shooting comunity should compile our experiances at diferant airports so others have an idea of what to expect.Dont know whats happening next year yet.

[tobi-wan]

The Italians love red tape and bureacracy!

[sidney]

Hi all, havn't got much to add to this that hasn't already been covered. If there were no paralympic shooting disciplines our quest would probably be easier, as Nicola suggested , the emphasis is all about reducing the cost of olympic/paralympic games, and having a more 'compact' games. Adding shotgun events will be tricky, mainly because to the non shooting onlooker we already have shooting disciplines in the staionary target sports, it may not be clear to them that clays and target shooting are about as simlar as tennis is to badminton.Unfortunately you would be amazed how little many olympic / paralympic employees/ officials really know about some of the sports too.  That said its not an impossible task, the future is looking brighter every year. Yes we have had problems, no doubt we will have more, but I think of it as a process we need to go through, get all the creases ironed out.  Complainers…… Its never anybody thats on form and shooting well is it? Im lucky so far I have never had a direct complaint, and shoot mainly able bodied OT/UT competitions. I think we have a certain amount of responsibility on both sides, tolerance by the able bodied, and on our part we should make effort to limit disruption, an example being stopping the chair momentarily when traveling from peg 5 to peg 1 and passing a shooter with the gun in shoulder waiting to call.Or having a well practiced routine that lets us slip quickly and quietly between pegs. Not everyone will agree with this, but I just think If i'm seen  to be making an effort, others will make more effort to be tolerant.My final thought…… Is an occasional slight clatter or squeek any worse than some of the guys i've shot with that cough, fart and belch there way through the whole round?!/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif

Edited by sidney, 18 September 2011 - 01:44 PM.

[jinxy72]

paul i can't see any valid reason why anyone can complain about having a wheelchair on any shoot (unless the shooter is unsafe i suppose but then that goes for anyone).. id be more concerned about too giants snarling and moaning about anything you do (like being slow) and this being more of a distraction to my shooting than a wheelchair next to me .. besides its discriminative and the CPSA shouldn't even pay any attention to such complaints …. wouldn't look good in the press would it ? As long as the individual is safe with a gun then whats the problem … I seen more unsafe able-bodied people at shoots than disabled … hope to bump into you at a shoot one day

[Gundog]

I have shot and still do shoot with disabled shooters. The only problem we've ever had with a chair bound shooter is that some of the acoustic systems turn themselves off when they move from pegs 5 to 1. this a failing on behalf of the engineers who design acoustic systems, not with disabled shooters and if any degree of intelligence was used by some of these electronic geeks there should be a decent delay built in before the sytem turns off. Always remember that at some point in time, you may well end up in the wheelchair next to your mate.

[jinxy72]

I have shot and still do shoot with disabled shooters. The only problem we've ever had with a chair bound shooter is that some of the acoustic systems turn themselves off when they move from pegs 5 to 1. this a failing on behalf of the engineers who design acoustic systems, not with disabled shooters and if any degree of intelligence was used by some of these electronic geeks there should be a decent delay built in before the sytem turns off. Always remember that at some point in time, you may well end up in the wheelchair next to your mate.

well said