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Will Hewland

Proposed new Sporting clays classification system

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Rob C

This is all about Will really .

 

Will for thinking of a decent idea .

Will we ever agree that it might make it better.

Will the CPSA ever make the changes....

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Will Hewland

I like the idea the only issue I can see is with small registered shoots or shoots that for whatever reason have a low turnout of top shots such as a clash with another big shoot.

Although not sporting I have been high gun twice in one cut off at registered sportrap. I would love to say I was a sportrap God but in reality it was just low turn out both times. My scores were both what I would expect average wise just I was the best of the low turn out. No way am I an AA shooter at sportrap but that's what I would have be classed under this system as I don't shoot much sportrap so 2 100% scores would mean I was a god.

I also have been 3rd at registered skeet which was also last place and to be fair last place is all I feel like aiming for at skeet anyway. But the point being 1st gets 100% for beating 2 guys by a couple of clays.

It certainly has the basis of a good system and the above are extremes and not sporting however they are on my registered scores and I have been to quite a few low turn out sporting shoots where it would also skew the scores unfairly. So just pointing out that you would have to take into account that for some of the smaller shoots or shoots not frequented by some of the big names it could be an unfair system or even abused.

I would be a tad upset to card in the 80's only to have it dropped to 50 because sod all of the lower classes have turned up to a wet and windy winter series shoot. Yes it would be discarded but shooting ok only for it not to count would pee me off.

I did consider the low turn out thing. But in the last few years, I have shot 17 grounds and never had less than about 30 entries, so didn't feel it was important. Most shoots are 70 to 130. Even when there was 30, the spread of scores still seemed representative.

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Will Hewland

Oh and Martin (me old mate) I think you may need to make a cuppa and actually spend 10 minutes to read what I wrote carefully. It really only protects the proper shooters such as yourself.

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tiptop

This is all well and good people for the Sunday registered shoots and the CPSA majors but.................

What about the so called big majors, Essex masters,Gamebore,Beretta etc.that are all independent shoots but run using the CPSA classification system, this is still left wide open for abuse by those that are that way inclined, and lets face it that these are the only sort of shoots that are really worth winning for the prizes.

 

Just a thought if i put some scores in under this system that came out as say 4 A class but are around the 74 area, and 4 B class scores say of around 74 which under this system could happen what would be my class be if the cut off was around say 74, A- or B+ 

 

Nic, I'm open to any change that may come but we must beware we don't t drive the lower ranks away.

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chippy

I shoot around 35 reg shoots a year at several different grounds so I guess I will stay in A class in both systems. Same as the last 10 years, so I would have no problem with it.

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Will Hewland

I shoot around 35 reg shoots a year at several different grounds so I guess I will stay in A class in both systems. Same as the last 10 years, so I would have no problem with it.

As I say, it's not designed to catch normal shooters out.

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Will Hewland

This is all well and good people for the Sunday registered shoots and the CPSA majors but.................

What about the so called big majors, Essex masters,Gamebore,Beretta etc.that are all independent shoots but run using the CPSA classification system, this is still left wide open for abuse by those that are that way inclined, and lets face it that these are the only sort of shoots that are really worth winning for the prizes.

Just a thought if i put some scores in under this system that came out as say 4 A class but are around the 74 area, and 4 B class scores say of around 74 which under this system could happen what would be my class be if the cut off was around say 74, A- or B+

Nic, I'm open to any change that may come but we must beware we don't t drive the lower ranks away.

Martin you seem to be finding demons where there are none. "74" will never be the cut off. No score will be. Just your percentage of listing at each shoot.

My system will put you in the right class for your ability. If that means you shot at a real toughie and hit 68 or a real softie where you hit 87, it would still define you at both shoots as the high end B class bloke you are (or A class if that's where you are now). At the essex or wherever, everybody would be in the same boat using the new classification system that will eliminate the out-of-place shooters. With respect I think you just have fear of change without real analysis of why.

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tiptop

Oh and Martin (me old mate) I think you may need to make a cuppa and actually spend 10 minutes to read what I wrote carefully. It really only protects the proper shooters such as yourself.

Will, I personally don't think i/we need protecting from the registered shooters.

The people that we need protecting from are the people that turn up at the indepenent shoots with the low class entry(via 3 cpsa scores), that are very good shots, and no matter what you put in place we will never stop that,no matter how low you put the bottom class bracket because they will always shoot what they have to.

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Will Hewland

Will, I personally don't think i/we need protecting from the registered shooters.

The people that we need protecting from are the people that turn up at the indepenent shoots with the low class entry(via 3 cpsa scores), that are very good shots, and no matter what you put in place we will never stop that,no matter how low you put the bottom class bracket because they will always shoot what they have to.

An addition to my system would be that you ONLY get a classification or a class change by shooting 5 shoots. You will never stop somebody who has a grand plan to do a major with a total con man concept of how to get a low class. But these folk are rare I guess.

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Chris Bubb

Well done Will, it looks like you put a lot of thought into this, after reading it through I can see no downside to your idea. Good luck with it.

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Jim Wheeler

Will, I personally don't think i/we need protecting from the registered shooters.

The people that we need protecting from are the people that turn up at the indepenent shoots with the low class entry(via 3 cpsa scores), that are very good shots, and no matter what you put in place we will never stop that,no matter how low you put the bottom class bracket because they will always shoot what they have to.

I see your point , I thought making CPSA membership compulsory might eliminate this type of abuse,,,, obviously not, when you think about it !.

don`t know what the answer is,, if there is one.

  human nature to cheat, somehow. 

 Will`s idea  is about as good as any other,,,,

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tiptop

As i said earlier all you need is random cut off "DATES" 3 months this one, 5 months the next one, 4 months the next one and so on, this gives those that want shorter classification periods what they want, and true current form, not knowing when the cut off date willl be your scores will all ready be in, they just announce, say in May that your new classification will be on scores from Feb through to April, next one may be from April through August, and so on, no manipulation, and a random cross section of where the shooter is shooting, or the shoot was won on 99 or 79, random from whatever the shooter has been doing through that period, could even get reclassified between any of the majors at anytime, so simple its unbelievable.

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tiptop

Just imagine shooting the shootclay cup one month and winning your class, have a random classification and have to shoot the Gamebore 1 or 2 classes higher....haha..... there would be a few people shouting w8nkers then, that they have been reclassified  :haha:  

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Mark Robinson

Instead of random cutoff could you not just use the last six months scores idea, but reissue classifications monthly. With a month between the 6 month worth of scores used and the new classification being issued.  This allows grounds to get scores/percentages in like the current system does.

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Steve Lovatt

right here we go , talking on here aint going to change anything as some strong minded people have all valid points , so will lets come up with a date , i will put a shoot on with good targets and lets see how it pans out in practice , you never know , some said a shoot with three birds in the air at once would never work or a flush incorporated , well it made the shooters laugh !!!

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tiptop

Steve you always put shoots on with good targets :)

Would be interesting though to see what happens!

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RobertBeard

The only way you can stop the true bandit is to have a rule at every shoot, registered or open, that the organisers reserve the right to reclassify shooters based on an undisclosed number of the targets shot at unknown stands based on their performance in the competition on that day.

This already happens in target shooting and is usually harsher in that an unclassified competitor has to shoot in the highest class ie AA or AAA.

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emvicne

Brilliant..... Simply brilliant!!!

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teepee1234

I wouldn't say it's brilliant - only because his head doesn't need to get any bigger...  :haha:

 

But it does seem to be a very good system.

 

Well done, Mr. Hewland.

 

And good on you Steve for stumping up.

 

Gotta try something new, something different, or the whiners/bashers will NEVER shut up!  :biggrin:

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Will Hewland

Dont worry Tony. the way I've been shooting lately, my head fits in a teacup..  :resent:

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teepee1234

Only because you spent too much time on a sunny beach and getting drunk!

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Will Hewland

Only because you spent too much time on a sunny beach and getting drunk!

I resemble that remark!

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Choke

right here we go , talking on here aint going to change anything as some strong minded people have all valid points , so will lets come up with a date , i will put a shoot on with good targets and lets see how it pans out in practice , you never know , some said a shoot with three birds in the air at once would never work or a flush incorporated , well it made the shooters laugh !!!

Difficulty of a course isn't taken into account at the moment. If Will's system was put into action, you could set as hard or easy course as you like and it still won't affect averages negatively.

I'm all for it, though recently I've found myself focusing on my average. I know that following averages isn't everyone's thing, most go out to break clays, so making a course too testing because it no longer matters could start to affect your entries.

The alternative system would put what would have been a disaster under the current one (such as EJC's recent comp) into perspective for a lot of shooters.

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Will Hewland

Difficulty of a course isn't taken into account at the moment. If Will's system was put into action, you could set as hard or easy course as you like and it still won't affect averages negatively.

I'm all for it, though recently I've found myself focusing on my average. I know that following averages isn't everyone's thing, most go out to break clays, so making a course too testing because it no longer matters could start to affect your entries.

The alternative system would put what would have been a disaster under the current one (such as EJC's recent comp) into perspective for a lot of shooters.

A spot on post.

I still think that if my system ever became adopted, folk would still like to hit some clays, so shoots where HG was 79 would be unpopular. It may be that after a long time, people stopped thinking about number of clays hit, but this could be many years..

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Rosso

You have to think about the amount of clays hit.

Other wise there's no point to the game.

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