Turn back time

Help Support :

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Steve Lovatt

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
1,781
Location
Cheltenham
With the advent of Dubai and the great interest shown in it from all calibre of shooters is it time in the uk we started to do more old style open shoots , where there are no classes top 10 to 15 people win the money , no need to manipulate averages just need to aspire to get better ????

I know the response I will get from the AA shooters but how about the other majority ????

 
Not for me.
I enjoy the odd open but prefer to work up through the class system.
Being placed in both registered shoots and majors is gratifying alongside an average that's on the up.
I would still shoot Dubai and Fitasc shoots but only to gain more experience for my shooting.

 
I don't see why no classes? But I don't remember 'old style shoots'

I loved the Classic this year....great targets and scores not affecting your average but still in classes? Always nice to be able to see how you have done compared to your peers...

Dubai is a bit of a one off...can't wait to sample the whole experience but I wouldn't want to have no chance of ever winning anything...or are you thinking of supplementing the prizes with raffles and/or a back number draw.

 
Not for me.

I enjoy the odd open but prefer to work up through the class system.

Being placed in both registered shoots and majors is gratifying alongside an average that's on the up.

I would still shoot Dubai and Fitasc shoots but only to gain more experience for my shooting.
Agree with Jem....he is a lot more eloquent than me at this time in the morning

 
I shoot from an exactly different side of the plate as it were :) I started out shooing late (been shooting UT and OT for a couple of years now) so am in veteran class but there is no classification for ability down here! To win anything I would have to win the vet category... which 8 out of ten times means I would have to win scratch as well because more often than not a vet wins scratch! I don't know why I bother entering comps other than for another days shooting and to see what I can do anyway :)

In short I would love to see the same system used in the UK over here for trap... and after having some discussions on the matter so would quite a few shooters I know here!

 
Don't think it will work.

Why would 85% of shooters pay into a prize fund that actually they have no chance of winning.

I think it would result in a lot of birds only entries and the top 15 prize money would not cover their entry.

It is about time the average system was revised though

 
You know I've always had a car project on the go.

Done many track days never the fastest on the track. But I still enjoyed the thrill of the drive.

I have been shooting since I was 16 that's 42 years.

Up to the last 8 months mainly club shooting sporting clays. I was AA. I got bored same old same old.

I decided I needed a change or pack it in.

So I started shooting registered sporting. What a shock I had.

Went straight to the bottom. I felt insulted.

What contributed to this was 2 x cataract opps on eyes. I decided to loose some weight 3 stone and brought a new gun as my kids (34 and 32 years old) were borrowing all my money which I am never going to get back.

I always considered myself a good shot like I am a good driver.

I just felt after 42 years of shooting I should be better than I am.

However iv used that 42 years experience to good effect,it's taken 6 months and I'm climbing, won loads of money, but there are posts on this forum where shooters sound demoralised because of what class their in.

The class system and hard registered sporting has given me the boost I needed. I could shoot these shoots birds only and not be classified.

So is it a fair system.

Years ago it was all open shoots no classes but I was a lot better then.

 
trouble is most grounds targets do little to support the CPSA averages system and percentages, we all know there are grounds you can attend that will give you a exaggerated average and no doubt many enjoy the elation of shooting a higher score ? but saying that they are in the game of making their business profitable, and as I have indicated modern shooters have changed a little they rate a shoot on how many they hit , and may be not on how good, testing and stretching of ability the targets are /were.... the top AAA and AA shooters have the ability to shoot everything well but this is not so true the lower the class, maybe it's time to be more realistic with what we shoot at ? shooting straight at (with skeet shells ) for 80% of targets maybe enjoyed by those climbing the system, but come on what is being learnt ?? same gun hold -sight picture,and forward press std after std will result in the lack of ability to read any target that requires more than 1m of lead ?

Surely shooting at a ground that does not propel you through to a un -competitive  class is the way things should go, this inturn may help with the averages in their current state ? balance is the key for me ..1-.2 stds should not be used to select the top scores (men from the boys) we need to dispel the myth of technical flightless close targets as the way forward, yes I know there will be those who will comment about how they set it in Europe and America but should not we lead ? and not follow ......as for open or not for me keep the classes , stiffen it up a bit , pay out according to entry in class ? and maybe pay more lesser amounts ,say in B and C as a encouragement and pay fairer amounts in A and AA (one clay should never cost anyone £120-150 !!!!)

I do know one thing about all this ...there is NO easy answer that will appease every one ...for me if I was in C class and I could shoot any ground and pick up prize money whilst learning a little each month..and stay in that class because my scores kept me there ... would be a perfect learning curve to build on to achieve my real level in this sport   !!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
With the advent of Dubai and the great interest shown in it from all calibre of shooters is it time in the uk we started to do more old style open shoots , where there are no classes top 10 to 15 people win the money , no need to manipulate averages just need to aspire to get better ????

I know the response I will get from the AA shooters but how about the other majority ????
Spot on .

Especially if you want to be a serious shooter and go international.

All international shoots are 'scratch'......Fact..!!

There are no classes.......only categories. You are there to do your best to win....and if you cannot win....you are there to learn and improve. Fact.

Luckily most world bodies are open competitions....so any shooter can attend to learn their trade and at whatever level they are at.....you pay your money and you take your choice. Only ISSF is closed event.

 
So when you get up into the A's your next challenge is international shoots unless of course you want to just have a no hope go for the fun of it.

 
I don't see why no classes? But I don't remember 'old style shoots'

I loved the Classic this year....great targets and scores not affecting your average but still in classes? Always nice to be able to see how you have done compared to your peers...

Dubai is a bit of a one off...can't wait to sample the whole experience but I wouldn't want to have no chance of ever winning anything...or are you thinking of supplementing the prizes with raffles and/or a back number draw.
Dubai is not a one off in reality although it has the highest prize fund at the moment.

Many disciplines have big money 'open' shoots on the world circuit each year. Perazzi Grand Italias in several disciplines, Green Cup in several disciplines, King's Cup in several disciplines etc etc etc

Only within individual countries will you see a class system existing as a way of either people playing against each other for fun or national titles.....or as a way of encouraging people to love competition and move on to international work.

This is similar in all countries.

 
The shoots I shoot - skeet shells don't come near.

Perhaps it's different in other parts of the country.

Club shoots have to keep the members happy so not as hard IMO.

You want to try shooting Steve Lovatts shoots brilliant, fair, hard, mega hard, technical, there all there.

Gunsite the same. Southdown can be extremely testing.

Churchills so technical, close, difficult.

Most shoots down here take some class climbing.

I have seen some AA shots hit worse scores than C wonder how they ever got into AA. Still anyone can have a bad day.

 
So when you get up into the A's your next challenge is international shoots unless of course you want to just have a no hope go for the fun of it.
Nope.

Most serious internationals do not even consider classes. They go because they love international competition. The winners in scratch or categories are simply those who shot the best....on the day (s) at the specific shoot. There is no guarantee that if you are in A class here in little England....that you will win at the big shoot. Lots of factors make a scratch winner or a category winner.....including the luck of the competition and everything coming together at the right time in the right place.

.....true story

 
Spot on .

Especially if you want to be a serious shooter and go international.

All international shoots are 'scratch'......Fact..!!

There are no classes.......only categories. You are there to do your best to win....and if you cannot win....you are there to learn and improve. Fact.

Luckily most world bodies are open competitions....so any shooter can attend to learn their trade and at whatever level they are at.....you pay your money and you take your choice. Only ISSF is closed event.
Agree with most what you are saying Nic... but, not referring to international championships, what you are in effect saying for someone in my position is don't bother entering competitions until you can hit 24 or 25 every round in practice and then move into competition and learn how to compete. If you are new to the sport and learning being in Vet leaves you no chance of competing because these guys already know their trade through many years of shooting practice and comps. It costs me €16 to shoot four rounds of training on a Saturday and €45 in a Sunday competition to shoot exactly the same targets with at least four of the shooters from the vet cat who will be taking home the cash for scratch and category!

I am not moaning about being not being good enough though more about not having an incentive to compete! You cannot suddenly become a good shooter but you may want to compete against people of similar ability, why would you want to pay €29 for the privilege of getting your name on a list of competitors?

 
Interesting views here of modern shooters , a point of note though is I hear a lot of great shooters tell me they learnt their trade at open shoots trying to improve to beat the winner guys such as nick Hendrick , Carl Bloxham , Stuart Clarke , etc

Also in these days gone by there was no birds only just a flat fee and they used to run open and novice class but once you had won a novice class usually a trophy then you had to enter the open shoot for the cash , I was delighted to win my first novice trophy , think I still have it some where then you realise you are in with the big boys improve or stay middle pack ???

 
Agree with most what you are saying Nic... but, not referring to international championships, what you are in effect saying for someone in my position is don't bother entering competitions until you can hit 24 or 25 every round in practice and then move into competition and learn how to compete. If you are new to the sport and learning being in Vet leaves you no chance of competing because these guys already know their trade through many years of shooting practice and comps. It costs me €16 to shoot four rounds of training on a Saturday and €45 in a Sunday competition to shoot exactly the same targets with at least four of the shooters from the vet cat who will be taking home the cash for scratch and category!

I am not moaning about being not being good enough though more about not having an incentive to compete! You cannot suddenly become a good shooter but you may want to compete against people of similar ability, why would you want to pay €29 for the privilege of getting your name on a list of competitors?
Nope.

When I went to try Helice for the first time it was at Invicta 2005. The next time was the World Championships in Portugal June 2005. Ended up 4th and tied with multi world champ.

If you really like to compete then it does not matter what the competition is called. You go you try your best and you hope for the luck as well. If you have a good day... Then boom..!!

As I have already tried to explain...there are many open competitions in many disciplines....open means anyone can go....they do not ask for your classification....they do not ask for your CPSA card.

You just pay your money and shoot your targets.

Simples.

The ones who do not have the drive or guts to jump in...may never get there...just saying.

Most of us go for a jolly anyway

 
Does anyone remember the Star Gun Club

open shoots from years ago.

Prizes down to I believe 14 places.

Every man and his dog used to do those.

The clubs gone down the pan now. Still there but not a patch on what it used to be like.

Don't know of any old type open shoots.

Perhaps a ground should try it and see what happens.

 
I think we must look at the popularity of the registered shoots and the system under which they are operated.
I am sure that system can be improved
(Not that I know how)
But looking at the entries for the majors and the registered shoots they seem full/popular.
How was sporting shot in the past?
As I've only been shooting five years so would be interested to hear?

 
I think we must look at the popularity of the registered shoots and the system under which they are operated. I am sure that system can be improved (Not that I know how) But looking at the entries for the majors and the registered shoots they seem full/popular. How was sporting shot in the past? As I've only been shooting five years so would be interested to hear?
Back in the day Open shoots were shot off scratch, occasionally you'd have a novice or ladies class too but basically it was a case of turning in a top 3 score or try again, which of course many did hence why they soon became pretty damn good. GD cut his teeth on re-entry straw balers and the like  ;)  . 

These places were also always packed which is why I have never subscribed to the idea that you NEED classes to bring people to shoots. I used to scrimp and save elsewhere so I could have a (very rarely two) go at it, just like now I knew perfectly well that I was putting more in the purse than taking out but it didn't stop me then and doesn't now. The only shoot to this day that I lost the will to wait and cashed my card back in was a scratch straw baler on a virgin field somewhere near Ashford with 40 or so people waiting to shoot each stand.  :eek:

You throw good targets, pay out to 15-20 with decent prizes and the classy shots would be there, and the rest come to shoot alongside them.

 

Latest posts

Back
Top