30 replies to this topic

[GlenPresley]

I see the shortlist has been announced!

Congratulations to All

http://www.britishshooting.org.uk/

Just wondering why Abbey Burton is not on the shortlist for womens OT?

I thought she was higher in the rankings and had more results?

Hope this is not a case of if your face fits again in this case!???

Glen.

[ShootClay Admin]

Interesting - she also wasn't on the November 2011 shortlist... not close enough to understand this - shall try and find out.

[GlenPresley]

Obviously those selected are exceptional talents and I am sure they will fly our flag well and of course I am sure we will be all rooting for our shooters.

I was very surprised to see she was not on the list though?

How does the shortlisting work? Surely it is based on the ranking system or winning quota places etc?

Maybe someone can explain to me how it all works?

I was under the impression Abbey was our top lady shooter at the moment for OT?

Glen.

[ShootClay Admin]

Nic has previously given me some excellent explanation of how the quota system works - she would be my first port of call to understand how the shortlist is made up. I'm sure she'll be here soon

[GlenPresley]

I read some of the info on the site on the policies and basically a panel decides at the end of the day.

From what I can see you could be the highest ranked and still not earn the right to the necessary backing? Maybe I am wrong but that is what I make from the policies. You could end up travelling doing all the time and effort and end up with nil at the end of the day? I think that happened to Mickey Rouse a long long time ago maybe some of the old school remember? I remember something along the lines he won a quota place but did not get it they gave it to somebody else or something? Maybe I am wrong.

Why would the 2nd placed top lady in GB not be on board? I can not for one minute believe she would not want to have the opportunity to shoot in the Olympics.

Oh well maybe will find out more soon.

[Nicola]

Nic has previously given me some excellent explanation of how the quota system works - she would be my first port of call to understand how the shortlist is made up. I'm sure she'll be here soon

Hi Matt,
It is really a travesty in my opinion and very upsetting after all the hard work that Abi has put in. Women's skeet has 3 short listed. However in women's OT the 2nd in the rankings has not been put on the list. Total madness in my humble opinion. Only the OPG could answer that (or maybe some of our new 'well connected' posters).
Current rankings on BICTSF site clearly show Shona as No1, Abi as No2, Caroline as No3 and Chaz as No4.
I know that Abi is very upset. And thanks to a little clause in the 'selection procedures' at No13 (which wipes out all the rest of it) she has also not been allowed to shoot her rightly won place at Tuson. I would debate that this is not what clause 13 should be used for in an Olympic year.......or any year......because BICTSF is the board that selects GBR athletes for World Cups........but hey.....what do I know. I only ever want to see transparency and fairness in our selections......otherwise how do we encourage participation in future competitions.

Ah well........I hope that Abi can show what she can do at the London test event....for which she 'currently' has a place.........which incidentally ....she earned.

[adam]

I don't know the full ins and outs but surely if you have earn't the place it should be yours especially if your also a higher ranked shooter. Sounds like a classic case of 'your name doesn't fit' which in my opinion is utter bollocks. 
PS Abbie if you read this well done you deserve better      

[GlenPresley]

I really want to know how this works, as I am sure there are many young shots who will be aspiring to make it to a games in the future.

Obviously I guess you need to shoot a score at a big champs to gain a quota place but can anyone give me a breakdown of what you have to do from start to finish to be eligible for The short list?

i.e -

Win Quota place - How do you do that?
Ranking Position does this come into it?
etc etc etc.

Thanks,

Glen.

[Nicola]

The whole pathway to selection is shown on the BICTSF website and the British Shooting website. Once you have jumped through all the hoops, made the GBR team, ended up in the required places in the rankings list.........you should be going to the events you qualify for. GBR teams are selected by BICTSF.
However Olympic places and short lists and funding is now under the control of the OPG (since we no longer have a 'Performance Director').This is a behind closed doors group. Even BICTSF did not get their minutes when I sat on the board.....because I asked for them several times.

This group should not be involved in our normal selection of GBR teams for non-Olympic events. It is not their remit. Unless BICTSF has abdicated all it's selection to them........which I presume would need a change of their Articles at an AGM for that to happen......and as far as I know that has not happened.......but hey ho............what do I know!

What I would like to see is our selection policy and route to GBR teams......totally transparent and clear........with no get out of jail free cards for when the fancy takes someone or some people!!!!!
Honour our athletes who work damn hard.

That is all 'simples'. Chlick!!

[GlenPresley]

So my question stands as I was very surprised not to see Abbey on the final listings.

Why is she not on there?

If she has earned all that is necessary in terms of ranking and qualification there must be a reason given to the shooter as to why they are not on the short list?

I can understand if the shooter can not do it or does not want to due to pressure but we are talking about top professional shooters who are our best homegrown talents.

Seems a bit of joke to me?

Glen.

[underdog]

Hi,

To win quota you have to be in gb team to shoot overseas as they can only be won at international issf comps.

to make gb team you have to shoot the gb selection shoots in uk to make team.

the selection has changed from year to year with rolling system 3 ex 4 last yr it was 2 ex 3. ladies 75targets +final men 125 +final. now i believe this year they are going back to 3 ex 4 but women shoot 75+final and men 200+final??

in my opinion they should leave it at 125 +final for men like it is abroad but i think they making it 200 to try and get people back into shoot ot as they wont travel for 125 targets!! (i still believe what ever way it is done the top shooter will be at the top)

the selection has also changed in the way that a MQS was compulasory in 2010/2011 women 87ex100 but is now for guidance only? i know this because i was in rank 3 spot in 2010/2011 but because i didnt have mqs in uk they reserved the right to swap me for rank position 4 if they had mqs score.

[GlenPresley]

So if I look to the current GB ranking as of the Site.
Are these actually correct or are they dated now?
Anyway I can see that other shooters also shot a 'World Standard Score' and are higher on the rankings and just as consistent? For me the ranking is a unclear then in this case?
Maybe it is just me seems very unclear and open to change relatively easily.

[underdog]

The current GB rankings are as they stand to date i.e shona 1 me 2 caroline 3 char 4

because of the usa team selected i have just read in complete depth the selection policy and have always understood top three you are in team! however there is a clause 13 that says they can step outside of the criteria!!

other shooters like me shona char and anita north as well have all shot world standard scores which can only be achieved by competing overseas.

in 2010/2011 i didnt argue my case because it was clear i had to have a mqs at uk gb shoots(87ex100) and i didnt so as long as you were in the top 4 of ot women rankings they could swap the 3rd position.

now it is not compulsory to have a mqs score in uk its for GUIDANCE ONLY. so i was confused with the team being selected as ranking 1 3 and 4

but doesnt explain what criteria i didnt meet to make the usa world cup. also olympic test events in the past so i am told was only for olympians and reserves selected.

it was stated that because me and caroline are in top three in uk rankings it is only fair that me and caroline get to attend one world cup each to have a fair chance. so my case is at an end!

alot of this caused me real upset and the feeling of discredability and have been left with no choice but to move on now and work and train towards the london world cup.

after all your are only as good as your last competition.

[Nicola]

I had thought that the 3rd ranked shooter had not been shooting due to a lay off to have a baby. So why would they want, in an important Olympic year, to give the 3rd ranked person 'a chance' at the expense of the 2nd ranked......you! Surely it would have been better for her to get match fit again for the next Olympic cycle......for 2016 and Brazil.
It does not make sense.

[GlenPresley]

The current GB rankings are as they stand to date i.e shona 1 me 2 caroline 3 char 4

because of the usa team selected i have just read in complete depth the selection policy and have always understood top three you are in team! however there is a clause 13 that says they can step outside of the criteria!!

other shooters like me shona char and anita north as well have all shot world standard scores which can only be achieved by competing overseas.

in 2010/2011 i didnt argue my case because it was clear i had to have a mqs at uk gb shoots(87ex100) and i didnt so as long as you were in the top 4 of ot women rankings they could swap the 3rd position.

now it is not compulsory to have a mqs score in uk its for GUIDANCE ONLY. so i was confused with the team being selected as ranking 1 3 and 4

but doesnt explain what criteria i didnt meet to make the usa world cup. also olympic test events in the past so i am told was only for olympians and reserves selected.

it was stated that because me and caroline are in top three in uk rankings it is only fair that me and caroline get to attend one world cup each to have a fair chance. so my case is at an end!

alot of this caused me real upset and the feeling of discredability and have been left with no choice but to move on now and work and train towards the london world cup.

after all your are only as good as your last competition.

Well I wish you luck Abbey and I hope you do not lose to much hope and come back stronger for it sure you will. I personally do not think it is right though.

I wonder what the other views are from the trap shooters on here?

They seem to be very vocal the rest of the time?

Ranking is ranking at the end of the day and from what I have seen and know of your achievements you are up their with the best in terms of British Lady OT Shooters.

I just hope you had the full letter and review as to why you were not included and what you need to work on in order to achieve your goal next time around.

Glen.

[underdog]

thank you i will do my best to be on top so i cannot be ignored and find my strength. its not right i admit but i cannot seem to do anything more! not sure if trap shooters know about whats happened but unless it concerns them they tend to stay out of it like i did until now!!

i admit i felt it was competely wrong out of order as spent alot of time and money (my life) to get to where i have and couldnt have had a really really bad year otherwise i wouldn't be rank 2! just annoys me that rank 4 is moved up into the team yet again!

but nothing i can control so i will just have to shoot better and prove to them i am capable and will make it! i havent had a detailed reply to date as to why or what i have to do but im all out of energy and stress asking and sending emails i think best way is to let them do what they want and i just have to shoot well enough for them not to overlook me.

thanks again for all your words of encouragement and support. have great 2012 for all your shooting.

x x

[Nicola]

Hi Abi. Let your shooting do the talking and all the best of luck with it.

What I cannot understand about the short list is that Olympic Skeet men have 3 people listed and Olympic Skeet women have 3 people listed, yet Olympic Trap men and women have only 2 men and 2 women short listed. Why are they one down for OT?

Interestingly you are 2nd and Ed is also 2nd in each of the ranking lists on the BICTSF website and yet neither of you are short listed. I had not realised until just looking on the BICTSF website tonight that Ed was also in 2nd ranked place. (Not sure if the BICTSF ranking list is up to date). So has Ed been told why he is not on it?

[underdog]

thanks will do my best, with regards to ed not sure he hasnt heard anything more after he sent an email appealing about not being on shortlist.
they havent reviewed it and come back to him or put him on it.i feel he deserves it.

he is a good shooter better than me!!. sometimes!!!

so not sure what happens if he isnt on it in may? again not clear think opg has a big thing to do with it either that or it must be just me and ed in the crap together .!!

happy shooting x

[Nicola]

I think that 2 from the same household who are left off when they are both 2nd in the rankings is strange..........It is not transparent enough for my liking.

But it is sad to say that shooters stand back and let this sort of thing happen over and over again.......nothing changes.

Well i know that OT is your passion but remember........as i always say..........there is always UT.................where anyone can turn up at a World, European and a World Cup and let their shooting do the talking......as you and Ed know.

These sorts of strange decisions will probably add to the reason why OT will continue to lose shooters.

[Andy S]

Didn't a similar thing happen to Lesley Goddard 4 years ago, where she one a quota place and was very highly ranked in the world but did not get selected to go to Bejing, where she may have been in with a medal chance.

I know that although you win a quota place it is not a personal one and gives your country team a place.

Andy.