Security

Oldblaster · Sep 17, 2017

I was horrified to read about a 15 year old boy taking a shotgun and amunition to school in Nuneaton to create carnage, but changed his mind at the last minute, or the ramifications could have been cataclismic! My point is how did he gain access to a locked gun cabinet? The keys must have been available some how, I believe in law the permit holder is the only person allowed to know where the keys are to prevent such unauthorised use.

danq · Sep 17, 2017

believe you are right when I had my interview the officer didn't want to know where I kept my keys.

there was also an article I read about a visit made to a certificate holder to check his guns and he wasn't in, but his ageing mother was she said no problem I can give you the keys they took his gun and certificate.

its a hard world for gun owners

Westward · Sep 17, 2017

It isn't written into statutory law or enshrined in common law but, as with many things, the police make it effectively the law on the basis that we either abide by their demands or risk losing our certificates. All we are legally obligated to do is keep guns secured from unauthorised access and theoretically there are various ways to accomplish this by means other than the "approved" steel cabinet and hiding the keys etc. All of that is purely designed by the police and adhered to in order to satisfy them that our security meets their requirements and is all part of fulfilling their relatively new, self appointed priority as guardians of public safety.

Sadly, fewer and fewer people remember a time when the primary function of the police was the maintenance of law and order.

FlyingTrotter · Sep 17, 2017

Key safe or gun safe with a combination lock perhaps ?

ChrisPackham · Sep 17, 2017

FlyingTrotter said:
Key safe or gun safe with a combination lock perhaps ?

I use a key safe, for security and to remember where things are...

Im looking forward to biometric advances, with facial recognition in laptops and phones now it can't be long until until they are affordable in cabinets..

P1Fanatic · Sep 19, 2017

My spare keys were hidden so safely I forgot where they were. So I ended up replacing both locks just for peace of mind and so I had a spare set.

Unless you have something like a keysafe then with the best will in the world someone could probably find your keys if the looked long enough or really wanted to ie kid could have a hidden camera or who knows what.

For those of you with keysafes - do you keep both sets in there?

525kev · Sep 19, 2017

Oldblaster said:
I was horrified to read about a 15 year old boy taking a shotgun and amunition to school in Nuneaton to create carnage, but changed his mind at the last minute, or the ramifications could have been cataclismic! My point is how did he gain access to a locked gun cabinet? The keys must have been available some how, I believe in law the permit holder is the only person allowed to know where the keys are to prevent such unauthorised use.

Probably attached to the cert holders keyring with his car keys hanging up just inside the front door and within reach of an average 15 yr old

Apparently some people think this is sufficient enough !

BASC on the other hand.

" You should ensure that you keep the keys to the cabinet in a place where they can’t be found easily. Remember that YOU are responsible for the security of the guns, and letting people who do not have a certificate (including family members) know where the keys are, is NOT taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they don’t have access to the guns. "

I'm getting a bout of Déjà vu

Rupert · Sep 19, 2017

If it can be hidden it can be found given enough time and an organised search. If security is breached the police will always place doubt on your measures.My safe has two 10 lever locks with different keys each made of two parts, so four hiding places which change frequently, safe weighs 3500 kilos and has walls and doors 210mm thick. In my view way above whats required.

danq · Sep 19, 2017

my gun cabinet is hidden behind a false wall and the keys are in a keysafe also hidden they were impressed when they came round but I refused to tell or show where the keys were . but I don't think there is a foolproof method of storage

ChrisPackham · Sep 19, 2017

P1Fanatic said:
My spare keys were hidden so safely I forgot where they were. So I ended up replacing both locks just for peace of mind and so I had a spare set.

Unless you have something like a keysafe then with the best will in the world someone could probably find your keys if the looked long enough or really wanted to ie kid could have a hidden camera or who knows what.

For those of you with keysafes - do you keep both sets in there?

One set in there and one set in cartridge cabinet (previous gun cabinet) and vice versa

All cabinets very well hidden!

Clay day · Sep 30, 2017

Rupert said:
If it can be hidden it can be found given enough time and an organised search. If security is breached the police will always place doubt on your measures.My safe has two 10 lever locks with different keys each made of two parts, so four hiding places which change frequently, safe weighs 3500 kilos and has walls and doors 210mm thick. In my view way above whats required.

How did you get a 3.5 ton safe in your house!!!!

Rupert · Sep 30, 2017

Clay day said:
How did you get a 3.5 ton safe in your house!!!!

How did i get it out of the bank? its a story for a BBq or a few beers, it was on a concrete pad in the corner of a single story building that had been a Nat west branch, It took 2 days to get across the suspended timber floor, turn it and take it down a hallway and out into the street. My mate, who cant read,but managed to build a million + a year skip firm came to collect it with a 19mm snap on spanner made into a bracelet, I made a time lapse video of the two days, i reversed the process to get into my house, solid ground floor so no porblem with weight, I did however make an error in my planning as i had turned the safe to come out of the building so it arrived at my home with the door facing the wall Doh, so i had to turn it in the room 180 degree. All this pulling pushing and lifting and the mechanisim has glass relockers in the door so any big shock and it would be inoperable.This is the item https://www.atozsafes.com/tann-ts4-900 but mine is 1800 high.

ChrisPackham · Sep 30, 2017

Rupert said:
How did i get it out of the bank? its a story for a BBq or a few beers, it was on a concrete pad in the corner of a single story building that had been a Nat west branch, It took 2 days to get across the suspended timber floor, turn it and take it down a hallway and out into the street. My mate, who cant read,but managed to build a million + a year skip firm came to collect it with a 19mm snap on spanner made into a bracelet, I made a time lapse video of the two days, i reversed the process to get into my house, solid ground floor so no porblem with weight, I did however make an error in my planning as i had turned the safe to come out of the building so it arrived at my home with the door facing the wall Doh, so i had to turn it in the room 180 degree. All this pulling pushing and lifting and the mechanisim has glass relockers in the door so any big shock and it would be inoperable.This is the item https://www.atozsafes.com/tann-ts4-900 but mine is 1800 high.

Wow! That's something else! I hope you could demonstrate to FAO that it was securely bolted to the wall!

Rupert · Sep 30, 2017

PP said:
Wow! That's something else! I hope you could demonstrate to FAO that it was securely bolted to the wall!

I rang him and he was all yeah yeah yeah fixed to wall come and inspect, fixed to wall? i asked why is somebody going to nick my wall as it weighs 3500 kgs, Well in a stern tone i will need to make a visit in order to ensure everything is in order, Ok come on over i reply. So he comes and is gawping at the thing as i open the door and puts his hands on the aperture and trys to move it(massive internal lolz) That will be fine i will just check your guns against records while im here. I think he realised it was massive and was trying to style it out.

ChrisPackham · Sep 30, 2017

Rupert said:
I rang him and he was all yeah yeah yeah fixed to wall come and inspect, fixed to wall? i asked why is somebody going to nick my wall as it weighs 3500 kgs, Well in a stern tone i will need to make a visit in order to ensure everything is in order, Ok come on over i reply. So he comes and is gawping at the thing as i open the door and puts his hands on the aperture and trys to move it(massive internal lolz) That will be fine i will just check your guns against records while im here. I think he realised it was massive and was trying to style it out.

Brilliant!

balltrap · Sep 30, 2017

Your average inspector goes by the normal rule book anything outside of that throws them into confusion, they are more interested in your mental state than any cabinet !

westley · Sep 30, 2017

balltrap said:
Your average inspector goes by the normal rule book anything outside of that throws them into confusion, they are more interested in your mental state than any cabinet !

Oh Dear ! what will you do with all your guns then ? :lol:

Rupert said:
How did i get it out of the bank? its a story for a BBq or a few beers, it was on a concrete pad in the corner of a single story building that had been a Nat west branch, It took 2 days to get across the suspended timber floor, turn it and take it down a hallway and out into the street. My mate, who cant read,but managed to build a million + a year skip firm came to collect it with a 19mm snap on spanner made into a bracelet, I made a time lapse video of the two days, i reversed the process to get into my house, solid ground floor so no porblem with weight, I did however make an error in my planning as i had turned the safe to come out of the building so it arrived at my home with the door facing the wall Doh, so i had to turn it in the room 180 degree. All this pulling pushing and lifting and the mechanisim has glass relockers in the door so any big shock and it would be inoperable.This is the item https://www.atozsafes.com/tann-ts4-900 but mine is 1800 high.

Your Mates name isn't Vic by any chance, is it ?

balltrap · Sep 30, 2017

westley said:
Oh Dear ! what will you do with all your guns then ? :lol:

Your Mates name isn't Vic by any chance, is it ?

Put them on my FAC licence !......do you have one

westley · Sep 30, 2017

balltrap said:
Put them on my FAC licence !

That 10/- Post Office licence will not cut it anymore, yer know ?

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