How many of you pre mount the gun?

Just recently I have noticed a trend that the targets that I am less consistent on are the ones that I mount the gun once the clay has appeared.

I have always been an advocate of having the gun out the shoulder to aid the field of view, I then started to mount the gun at times a fraction before the clay appears. It is these clays that I now pre mount for that I am most consistent on and less so on the clays I mount on after the clay has appeared in view.

I seem to find I have greater control of the gun with pre mounted, especially on fast clays (I have been bursting through the front of fast clays and loosing control very frequently, even had to try intercepting them to stop doing it)

How many of you pre mount?

Is pre mounting the preferred teaching method these days? I see more and more people doing it that are very capable, not just beginners.

Regards Martin

Depends on the  window of opportunity for me,plenty of time unmounted.little time mostly pre mounted as i seem to rush and lose accuracy...but then i am no star shot.

I always pre mount - I need all the help I can get!   

Gun up all the time.  If it is a target that you have a long wait for I just lift my head off the stock and drop it back down when ready.

I don't rough shoot or shoot game so there is no real benefit to me in practicing shooting gun down.

You don't really want to get into the habit of pre-mounting on everything unless for Trap or even Skeet where some seem to do very well doing so. As a rule only the simpler going away shots seem to lend themselves to pre-mounting in ESP although it's a very useful set of skills to have because occasionally you will need it on less obvious presentations, the trick is to understand its benefits but even more so, its flaws. 

As a rule it's useful where you're trying to restrict undesirable speed so for instance a high quartering mid distance target that is easily missed in front (because your brain won't believe it's neither fast or crossing) can be shot gun up so long as you know exactly where to place the barrels - you need to make sure you still leave yourself some work to do, i.e, a tiny bit of final line (which generates movement) otherwise you can end up spot shooting which brings its own set of problems. (You can even watch people flinch here when they're being too consciously methodical) 

Overhead birds can also be shot gun up but again you really need to know what you're doing because here you really are spot shooting in effect, bar, again a tiny bit of line finding. Very occasionally you'll come across a pair of fast going aways with a very slight angle which will respond well to pre-mount because the brain can't tackle the first (very close) bird as requiring no lead and worse still the pattern hasn't opened up so a pre-mount will allow the first shot to be made much less daunting which in turn opens up the time you have left for the second. 

A very complex thing is pre-mounting. 

We shoot mostly Game Compak and Game trench here - where pre-mounting isn't allowed, so getting used to wouldn't be of any benefit. There are already mentioned short window targets that require anticipation approach, where you begin to lift the gun with a call - the bird is already out of the trap, but before you have visually digested it...it is a thin line affair and a tempting thing that tends to become undesirable habit. Pre mounting is mandatory on OT, but since I am not accustomed to it the timing is out of this space for me. Still an odd 22/25 can be obtained with low gun but it is more like a stunt than competitive shooting.

Agree with most what Hamid says. For me, I developed a method of gun firmly in the shoulder, but with my face a few inches above the stock when I call for the target. On fast going aways etc my face will be nearer the stock. This method works well as it has the advantage of unobstructed vision for the emerging target, with the guarantee of no gun-mount problem. It's important to move the face gently to the stock however, or you get a sudden sight picture change. (Had this as a problem years ago). 

I shoot Fitasc ok, so gun down is no big deal, but certain fast shots are definitely harder gun down. I wouldn't start a 100m running race with my shoelaces undone..

Realistically I don't have too much of a problem with gun down with driven, crossing, high quartering away etc.  Subconsciously I already pre mount for over heads and fast close crossers, I just mount in the time between calling for the clay and it appearing.

My main problem is low crossing and low quartering away at speed.  I try to shoot gun down, I then lose hard focus on the clay and then burst through the front and generally shoot in front and above.  If I shoot dtl I shoot gun up and have no problem off pegs 1 and 5, but as soon as I get on esp with an exact same bird and gun down it all goes tits up.  The only variable I can think is the gun down is causing problems.

I'm not in the thinking that gun up is going to suit every bird that I shoot at, but I think its something I need to invest some time in and try out on the faster birds for better consistency.  The gun mounted and head off the stock is definitely worth a go as well for better vision.

Will Hewland said:

Agree with most what Hamid says. For me, I developed a method of gun firmly in the shoulder, but with my face a few inches above the stock when I call for the target. On fast going always etc my face will be nearer the stock. This method works well as it has the advantage of unobstructed vision for the emerging target, with the guarantee of no gun-mount problem. It's important to move the face gently to the stock however, or you get a sudden sight picture change. (Had this as a problem years ago). 

I shoot Fitasc ok, so gun down is no big deal, but certain fast shots are definitely harder gun down. I wouldn't start a 100m running race with my shoelaces undone..

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Yes it's worth mentioning that there is gun down and there is gun down, I too shoot with the gun just out of the shoulder for most shots but it is essentially not in the shoulder leaving you with the best of both worlds, the ability to see things better and using the mount itself as part and parcel of imparting movement and even lead to the bird. 

Occasionally I'd use a very exaggerated low held gun hold say for a target that is in view for a very long time but needs shooting fairly late in its flight. 

My profile picture shows how I'm set when calling. 

I shoot mainly maintained lead so when shooting low mount at fast, going away birds I must adapt - mantained wouldn't get me far. I can choose between two options - either

1. When not knowing exact path of the bird I turn to "blind" instinctive trap like, with gun hold close to the trap, call for the bird, let it pass the barrel and swing through.

2. When knowing exact path of the bird (gun hold must be spot on) I put my gun hold out, almost on the break point, call for the bird and shoot "in the zone" when time is right.

Jonny English said:

How many of you pre mount?

Is pre mounting the preferred teaching method these days? I see more and more people doing it that are very capable, not just beginners.

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I always pre mount, so does absolutely everyone else. Why would you shoot trap targets any other way?

Jan Powell said:

I always pre mount, so does absolutely everyone else. Why would you shoot trap targets any other way?

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We're talking proper shooting.  

actually will your talking clays, proper shooting is game ??

I have always been a game shot before coming to clays a couple of years ago, so gun down is natural for me.

The only target I sometimes premount for is a fast going away bird from under my feet.

Will Hewland said:

Agree with most what Hamid says. For me, I developed a method of gun firmly in the shoulder, but with my face a few inches above the stock when I call for the target. On fast going aways etc my face will be nearer the stock. This method works well as it has the advantage of unobstructed vision for the emerging target, with the guarantee of no gun-mount problem. It's important to move the face gently to the stock however, or you get a sudden sight picture change. (Had this as a problem years ago). 

I shoot Fitasc ok, so gun down is no big deal, but certain fast shots are definitely harder gun down. I wouldn't start a 100m running race with my shoelaces undone..

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I am trying to imagine you doing a 100m sprint

I am a mixture, gun up, gun down, The Will Hewland method where I keep my head off my stock for a wee while while I take it all in.

sibaldib said:

I have always been a game shot before coming to clays a couple of years ago, so gun down is natural for me.

The only target I sometimes premount for is a fast going away bird from under my feet.

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I am other way round, thirty years trap pre mounted now game and occasional esp for game practice, everything gun down. ?

I shoot everything premounted tbh unless its some super slow floppy clay floating in from the other side of the field like you get at Gatton Bottom meaning a longer time between caling and shooting. A lot of people (and I mean at my level not the top shots) seem to shoot gun down because it looks / sounds cooler but I often see them letting the clay get well past their barrels or some even mounting after they call pull but before the target actually appears.

ips said:

actually will your talking clays, proper shooting is game ??

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Game shooting is a long old day out premounted all drive, you need a front arm like hurcules!