Inotrope

Tinnitus despite double protection

18 posts in this topic

Hi, I'm a novice shooter (6 months, B725, ESP).

I've always worn both plugs (initially foam, now Auritech "Shoot") AND ear defenders - initially HL Impact, now MSA Sordin Supreme Pro, but I still notice that I get tinnitus.

Initially it would start a day or so after shooting and last 24 hrs, now I've noticed it persists (but isn't particularly troublesome). My hearing (assessed with a pure tone audiogram) is fine.

I do shoot quite a bit (up to 300ish cartridges at a time). My Coach has suggested shooting a bit less!

A colleague (Head and Neck Surgeon & ex military) has suggested that the tinnitus could be from the firing pins (high frequency noise) rather than the more usual "loudness" (which I guess is lower frequency but higher amplitude if that's correct?!). Or could it be recoil (bone conduction)?

 

Any thoughts? I've not found much in the literature about this.

Am I just a bit weird (maybe).
What else can I do? (Shoot less?)
Any one else similarly affected?

Appreciate your expertise!

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If your hearing was properly checked and you have no drop out then it is very unlikely to be tinnitus though there are some causes unrelated to sound medical conditions such as high blood pressure and some medicines such as Aspirin cause it occasionally.

According to the 2 specialists i saw for my hearing claim you are not actually hearing a noise it is the brain trying to replicate the sound it can no longer hear and producing what it thinks it is missing.

I have pretty severe tinnitus and it NEVER goes away,ringing in your ears after shooting is one thing but it is not really tinnitus as i understand it.

http://www.webmd.boots.com/a-to-z-guides/tinnitus-ringing-ears is a fairly good guide.

Generally it is due to prolonged exposure to excessively high sound levels this was the cause of mine over years.

Earmuffs are much better than plugs as sound can actually get through the soft tissue behind the ear as well,but hey need to fit well and fully enclose the ear.

I also struggle with defined hearing in noisy places where i may struggle to hear someone next to me but may be able to hear someone across the room quite clearly.

Basically my left ear is completely bolloxed and the last specialist suggested that if i were his patient he would recommend a hearing aid which can help in some cases.

Dunno if that helps in any way ;)

 

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That does help; particularly the bit about brain trying to replicate sound (I've noticed a couple of occasions when I've "reheard" the very high pitched "ting!" of firing pin on primer cap when not shooting).

It's not noticeable unless in quiet surroundings either (which I guess is different to true tinnitus).

We'll go with "just a bit weird" as a diagnosis then ;)

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We are all different , no idea in a medical sense, but my wife has mild tinitus, and is getting a bit hard of hearing. I doubt she has heard or fired more than a few hundred bangs in her lifetime, unlike me, who has had unknown numbers without any protection a lot of the time! can make you a bit deaf for a few minutes!  specially machine guns .My hearing is still very good,,   unlike my memory !     also know a few in the business who are almost completely deaf, hearing aids etc,

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1 hour ago, Inotrope said:

Hi, I'm a novice shooter (6 months, B725, ESP).

I've always worn both plugs (initially foam, now Auritech "Shoot") AND ear defenders - initially HL Impact, now MSA Sordin Supreme Pro, but I still notice that I get tinnitus.

Initially it would start a day or so after shooting and last 24 hrs, now I've noticed it persists (but isn't particularly troublesome). My hearing (assessed with a pure tone audiogram) is fine.

I do shoot quite a bit (up to 300ish cartridges at a time). My Coach has suggested shooting a bit less!

A colleague (Head and Neck Surgeon & ex military) has suggested that the tinnitus could be from the firing pins (high frequency noise) rather than the more usual "loudness" (which I guess is lower frequency but higher amplitude if that's correct?!). Or could it be recoil (bone conduction)?

 

Any thoughts? I've not found much in the literature about this.

Am I just a bit weird (maybe).
What else can I do? (Shoot less?)
Any one else similarly affected?

Appreciate your expertise!

I'm not sure tinnitus works quite like that, you can't get it like a cold or shake it off, once it's there it's there for good the only difference would be the severity. I've had it in my left ear for a decade now, I started noticing a fuzzy ringing noise occasionally straight after shooting which I seemed able to shake off after a moment or two (this was I now know the onset of it reaching a noticeable permanent stage). 

I too have always worn hearing protection for clay shooting from day one because I found the noise of others shooting unbearable, unfortunately I did not do the same when pigeon shooting because back in the day you couldn't buy electronic types that would allow you to hear ordinary sounds. The trouble with sound as I am sure you know is that its effects are cumulative and irreversible, the microscopic hairs within ones ears get damaged and can never be repaired again and will not regenerate naturally. It affects different people differently of course and it is not necessarily in direct correlation with ones actual hearing ability. Mine remains near perfect but I "hear" a ringing noise in my left ear which I have learned to not hear. The first couple of weeks was murder.

Anyway, as I was saying the warnings kept coming and going until one day I went pigeon shooting and shot a high incomer dead (with no earphones) and suddenly crossed the point of no return so to speak, tests and brain scans followed and I have since doubled up with in ear moulded protection as well as good over ear protection into which I have inserted extra foam. The noise severity has not escalated which is all one can really hope for. 

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i had a severe ear infection  , long story short   I finished up with a skin graft operation in qmc  superb result for 18 months   then said ear canal closed  sealed up    no more operations available  , so  nearly deaf in my right ear     left ear reasonable hearing ,  but tinnitus in both ears  thought I was going mad initially       I cope ok   but ok aint great   when quiet its worse , my gp and consultant says   not much they can do ,  ive always used ear protection when shooting , but 30 years in a canning factory has done damage ,     

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Hi, we have found certain models of shotgun are much worse for sound penetration and seems related to pitch. The likely cause is the firing pin mechanism although cartridge choice also makes a difference. We avoid being near the worst sounding. 

What we have found helps with tinnitus.

 

A. Shoot alot less than you currently are. This also means less sessions in a week. Even once a week maybe too much at first.

B. Reduce the felt recoil. 24g or even 21g if needs be or use a semi. This will be a benefit for you in the long run as you have to be more accurate. If/ when you revert to 28g you'll smoke everything you target. The health benefit may or may not be apparent for you with this one dependent upon the state of your ears. 

 

C. Try a different model gun over a long period. The high pitched pings appear very piercing to us.

 

D.  This was the biggest improvement for us. Use both a high DB rating earplug ( I use EAR fx) and ear defenders with extra padding foam fitted. The disadvantage is you can't hear others talking too well but that's tough. They'll understand.

 

I hope you find suitable solutions for this before it becomes permanent. As others have said, if it becomes permanent you really will think you're going mad. Please heed all of the advice given to you on this thread. The best of luck and happy shooting.

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12 hours ago, pjpj said:

C. Try a different model gun over a long period. The high pitched pings appear very piercing to us.

D.  This was the biggest improvement for us. Use both a high DB rating earplug ( I use EAR fx) and ear defenders with extra padding foam fitted. The disadvantage is you can't hear others talking too well but that's tough. They'll understand.

Thanks pjpj, I've certainly noticed the high pitched pings more so than anything else!
I've ordered some of the EAR fx plugs, fingers crossed these will be useful!

De. Lecter; glad you were well cared for at QMC; we do our best ;)

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The only time i hear 'the firing pin' is when a bloody cartridge does not go off. Even then its just a dull click.

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I don't understand this firing pin thing,certainly not loud enough to cause any hearing issues.

if you are righthanded you will have worse issues with the left ear and vice versa something to do with distance and the speed of sound...can't remember exactly?

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I've had tinnitus for about six years, seen specialists and every thing. Mine first came on when I was using some cheap cartridges which were very loud. It was intermittent for a start but them became permanent but certainly seemed to be aggravated by shooting.

I would recommend cutting back a bit on the the volume of shots you take in one day, instead of 300 in a day shoot a 100 then leave it for a few days before shooting another hundred.

I have got used to it now and although the sizzling/ringing is there permanently I only hear it when I think about it. Given time the brain learns to ignore it.

Hopefully with yours if you cut back a bit and take a rest for a while from shooting it might go away - fingers crossed.

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I had forgotten about my tinnitus....................UNTIL I started to read these threads. I am right handed, but lost the hearing in my left ear after a slight stroke. 12 months later I had another minor stroke which then left me almost totally deaf in my right ear. I now wear a hearing aid in my left ear, but nothing will work in my right ear, so that just keeps my glasses on now. I too have always worn hearing protection of one form or another, except when pigeon and game shooting, I also shot a fair bit of rifle and pistol whilst at work, but the 'Instructors' took great delight in lobbing a 'thunderflash' into a room, "Just for effect"  ?   So, all in all, my ears have taken a bit of a bashing, Oh, and I have been married for 50 years too !  I don't think that any one of these things have helped my hearing in any way,  BUT,  put them all together and I stood no bloody chance  !

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On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 10:18 PM, Hamster said:

The trouble with sound as I am sure you know is that its effects are cumulative and irreversible, the microscopic hairs within ones ears get damaged and can never be repaired again and will not regenerate naturally.

Scientists have successfully regrown damaged hearing hair in deaf mice.

Apparently Hamster's are next 🐹

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20960418

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On 11/04/2017 at 6:43 PM, westley said:

I had forgotten about my tinnitus....................UNTIL I started to read these threads. I am right handed, but lost the hearing in my left ear after a slight stroke. 12 months later I had another minor stroke which then left me almost totally deaf in my right ear. I now wear a hearing aid in my left ear, but nothing will work in my right ear, so that just keeps my glasses on now. I too have always worn hearing protection of one form or another, except when pigeon and game shooting, I also shot a fair bit of rifle and pistol whilst at work, but the 'Instructors' took great delight in lobbing a 'thunderflash' into a room, "Just for effect"  ?   So, all in all, my ears have taken a bit of a bashing, Oh, and I have been married for 50 years too !  I don't think that any one of these things have helped my hearing in any way,  BUT,  put them all together and I stood no bloody chance  !

 

Sorry can you repeat that !

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On 4/11/2017 at 6:43 PM, westley said:

I had forgotten about my tinnitus....................UNTIL I started to read these threads. I am right handed, but lost the hearing in my left ear after a slight stroke. 12 months later I had another minor stroke which then left me almost totally deaf in my right ear. I now wear a hearing aid in my left ear, but nothing will work in my right ear, so that just keeps my glasses on now. I too have always worn hearing protection of one form or another, except when pigeon and game shooting, I also shot a fair bit of rifle and pistol whilst at work, but the 'Instructors' took great delight in lobbing a 'thunderflash' into a room, "Just for effect"  ?   So, all in all, my ears have taken a bit of a bashing, Oh, and I have been married for 50 years too !  I don't think that any one of these things have helped my hearing in any way,  BUT,  put them all together and I stood no bloody chance  !

The first sentence was me too! As for the rest of it :lol: made I laff. 

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I was in the local supermarket yesterday and all of the staff were wearing fluffy big rabbit ear things. I managed to buy a pair but,.............................................I'm still DEAF  !

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Recently I have been diagnosed with Tinnitus. The noise i hear is constant, 24hours a day.

First concerns were naturally shooting noise damage.

MRI scans showed no related health or hearing damage / condition.

Hearing tests showed I do not have hearing damage. My hearing test results are normal for a person my age.

The type of tinnitus I have is called 'subjective' tinnitus.

My Tinnitus is caused by a medical condition affecting my inner ear, which is telling my brain an unrecognized message, which results in the noise that I here.

It’s likely to be a nerve problem, which is producing random electrical signals that can occur in any part of the hearing pathway.

I have been referred to a neurologist.

Has anyone else experienced similar ?

 

 

Edited by Cayman

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On 4/10/2017 at 1:35 PM, schmokinn said:

If your hearing was properly checked and you have no drop out then it is very unlikely to be tinnitus though there are some causes unrelated to sound medical conditions such as high blood pressure and some medicines such as Aspirin cause it occasionally.

According to the 2 specialists i saw for my hearing claim you are not actually hearing a noise it is the brain trying to replicate the sound it can no longer hear and producing what it thinks it is missing.

I have pretty severe tinnitus and it NEVER goes away,ringing in your ears after shooting is one thing but it is not really tinnitus as i understand it.

http://www.webmd.boots.com/a-to-z-guides/tinnitus-ringing-ears is a fairly good guide.

Generally it is due to prolonged exposure to excessively high sound levels this was the cause of mine over years.

Earmuffs are much better than plugs as sound can actually get through the soft tissue behind the ear as well,but hey need to fit well and fully enclose the ear.

I also struggle with defined hearing in noisy places where i may struggle to hear someone next to me but may be able to hear someone across the room quite clearly.

Basically my left ear is completely bolloxed and the last specialist suggested that if i were his patient he would recommend a hearing aid which can help in some cases.

Dunno if that helps in any way ;)

 

My story exactly.  The left ear hearing aid is a def plus

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