highwayman's bank holiday monday

Hi all, I feel compelled to put my comments to the world, I shot the highwayman's on bank holiday monday and didn't have the best time! I understand it was a busy day as the weather was great but to be waiting 45 +minutes at 4 stands was painful to say the least, I personally topped up 5 empty traps as the shoot ground to a halt. Running out of clays at the traps, as in no boxes to top them up with! No walky talkies to alert ground staff of trap problems indeed there were no visible ground staff only the organiser. Stand 8 was just plain dangerous, a low incomer hit before a peg constantly fired broken clay in to waiting shooters of which there were many,also hitting the scorer numerous times.The shoot in my opinion if it counts was set far too hard, I love challenging targets but the course should be balanced to keep scores at a regular rate. Im a B shooter who hopefully is about to ascend to A and shoots low to mid 80's regularly, I shot a 69! I thought the number of stands with hard targets were too numerous. I thought I was having a bad day till I saw the majority of the scores were all low. Shooters that I know their average scores were down as much as 12 birds! Shooters who shoot registered targets are not going to want to go there often as who wants to be dropped a class because your numbers are falling!I also thought the ground was very rambling with massive distances between each stand, they have a lovely ground there and didn't need to space it out quite so far, It felt longer than the essex masters and that was 200 bird!Our cards also were numbered incorrectly as when the scorers went to enter our score on the master sheet the space was already filled! which leads you to think.....Am I getting my score or someone else's??? I am a firm believer in telling it how it is,otherwise how does any of us learn? The location is lovely but the course needs a proper setter who can balance the targets. Im sorry to moan on but for the first time in shooting I wanted to leave the shoot early and go home, as did some shooters. A guy who I have met threw shooting who is a AA shot and rising fast always shoots in the high 80's and low 90's consistently shot 74, that speaks volumes to me, He said it was tough and 30% of the stands were card killers! I have to agree. Im probably going to upset people with this post but it needs to be said.

Empty traps and broken clay showers are bad juju, by turning cry baby because the Highwayman robbed you of some ego and made you walk too far is silly!!! What was the wind doing, fud it change how the targets were intended to be presented? If your averaging 80's, your vanity will be saved because your 69 will be dropped...if your averaging 80's at 'sort' shoots then you are just kidding yourself...

Such a shame you had a bad experience at Highwaymans, my first time there couldn't have been much different.  Breakdowns and empty traps when no one on hand to deal with them really isn't good enough.  I heard from a few yesterday that found the afternoon a trying experience to say the least!  However, I couldn't disagree more about the targets.  I thoroughly enjoyed the shoot itself, and it was great to find another ground to rival Westfields!  These two grounds now rank as my current top two favourites.  I have arthritis in my knee, however the distance walking between the stands really wasn't an issue.  It was worth it to see such a great use of the space, throwing some targets that needed some good lead.  Too few ground have the space for this, nor the courage to do it. 

Perhaps other grounds and 'average' scores are too soft maybe - there are massive scores going in at some shoots, maybe Highwaymans have the right idea?  Certainly the many shooters I spoke to about this of varying abilities all rated the targets highly, if not the organisation. 

I really hope the problems they encountered do not deter people from going back.  Between there and Barrow two very good shoots in that area.

Shame you had a bad time OP

Looking at the class winning scores they look fine.

91 HG

90 AA

88 A

86 B

76 C

Over average if you ask me but I wasn't there.

I look forwrd to shooting it as it is a fairly local ground to me.

Hope they get the trap breakdowns and refilling sorted soon.

Nothing wrong with the targets save for the stand where we had to stand behind the cage to see them and the orange incoming midi (shrapnel). Otherwise good birds.

What was a pain was the broken traps and no one around to fill them. We took the best part of 5 hours and still didn't finish.

Early days for them so can't really blast them and it does have potential, I might go back in a while but will give them time to adjust themselves accordingly first! Still a bit disappointing but I'm over it

My average is 80 and I shot 65 but I cannot blame the ground/round. There was an 88 in A and three 86s in B so I can only blame myself for shooting like a knob.

I knew I would ruffle feathers with my comments but I only spoke from my experiences, I hope they do get sorted for the future and I hope they learn from the short falls, no one gets anything right first time. This is a forum to discuss all things clay like and not a place to poke fun, my comments were accurate with reference to my particular experience. The guy who insinuates I shot bad and am throwing my dummy out my pram shows his ignorance to the subject, If I shot bad thats my fault but average scores were lower,,break downs and running out of clays is easily prevented, if no one speaks up how does anyone learn. Ed solomon is an outstanding shooter who would relish and smash most of those targets with no problem such is his standard, as digweed and many others would, but the majority of shooters are far from their skill level and do not want to be demoralised stand after stand,the balance was wrong in my eyes, if only the top shots turned up to shoot it would go bankrupt on its first day, its the normal people turning up to shoot that pay the bills and without a proper balance they will push people away.I know its early days and hope they carefully consider setting the course in future.

Big Paul, In my opinion there was nothing wrong with the targets at all. I'm A class and my average is 78 and on the day shot 75 and could have easily shot 80 with better concentration.

If you are currently B class then 69 was not too bad at all. I have always found that I need to be challenged by more difficult shoots in order to learn, and improve.

I would say to Highwaymans please do not soften off the targets but do improve the organisation.

Nobody said you were 'throwing your dummy"...but you. You just felt overwhelmed and your ego is bruised, if you can't tough it out on a tricky shoot, then your probably not ready for A class yet anyway. Suck it up!!! The class winning scores are where you'd expect on a normal shoot, they don't suggest it was a shoot only for AAA guys, the empty traps and all the rest of it are legitimate things to moan about...but 12 off your average over 12 stands is hardly a hanging offence for the course setter!?!?

James Johnston said:

Nobody said you were 'throwing your dummy"...but you. You just felt overwhelmed and your ego is bruised, if you can't tough it out on a tricky shoot, then your probably not ready for A class yet anyway. Suck it up!!! The class winning scores are where you'd expect on a normal shoot, they don't suggest it was a shoot only for AAA guys, the empty traps and all the rest of it are legitimate things to moan about...but 12 off your average over 12 stands is hardly a hanging offence for the course setter!?!?

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Maybe i misread Big Pauls comments, however i see iknow reason why you have to be so critical of other peolples comments !!!.

You seem like a typical keyboard warrior who seems to comment on everything with no knowledge of the events or facts....

Did YOU shoot it ??...... What is your ESP class & average ??...... Are you representing Scotland at the World ESP ??... 

Big Paul - it was good to read your comments on how you found the shoot.  Us shooters all have ideas at each and every shoot as to how we would do something differently I am sure.  I thoroughly enjoyed it, doesn't mean either of us are correct!   I agree, the organisation in the afternoon sounded shambolic - however I am sure they will learn from that. 

Personally, I was pleased to see a tougher shoot - and I am far from a top shot!

However,  there is no need for anyone to be rude or arrogant towards you expressing your opinion on how you found the targets.  Everyone should be able to express their views on here, and receive a polite and respectful response in return. 

philmoss said:

Maybe i misread Big Pauls comments, however i see iknow reason why you have to be so critical of other peolples comments !!!.

You seem like a typical keyboard warrior who seems to comment on everything with no knowledge of the events or facts....

Did YOU shoot it ??...... What is your ESP class & average ??...... Are you representing Scotland at the World ESP ??...

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Big Paul wanted to 'ruffle feathers'...empty traps ect, who could blame him for being upset, but things into perspective, he broke less clays than he wanted to and had a walk between stands!?!?

Did I shoot it? No, but sounds like it has the potential to be a good shoot!!! Enough space that you need to walk between stands means they can't throw some crossers that need lead rather than be forced to throw mostly quartering targets due to space constraints. If Ben Wells YouTube video of Highwaymans is anything to go by, there wasn't miles between stands and the targets looked good!!!

What's my class/average? A class, don't know my current average.

Am I in the Scottish team for the worlds? Nope, not going to the worlds, working. If I was going to the worlds, no I still wouldn't be in the team. Keyboard warrior? Nope, not typing anything I wouldn't say fact to face...mind you, face to face you could see whe toung is in cheek and hear the tone of voice...

James I can handle a difficult shoot no problem, shoots are set to a certain standard as you should be aware so as not to make a mockery of the classification system, your comments aimed at me will simply roll off my broad shoulders, as you weren't actually there I see little point in you commenting on the shoot, as you weren't there to experience a painful 5+ hours to shoot 100 targets. If you expressed frustration at a shoot in Scotland, I would feel for you and probably just say "give them time, I'm sure they will get there in the end" I wouldn't be digging at you, accusing you of bruised ego.I am fully aware of how the cpsa classification works and know the odd low score gets dropped. I personally wouldn't be commenting on a shoot up your neck of the woods as not being there how can I form an educated opinion of that particular event when not in possession of all the facts. As far as classification,I am B but have been shooting well aside from nerves, shooting low to middle 80's regularly at different grounds including shooting for my county in sporting which for a B shooter I am very proud of, hopefully I will hit A class this May, and difficult targets especially very high and distant targets I enjoy a lot and was lucky enough to qualify on an 18/20 matching AAA shooters which was a massive thing to me in the white gold challenge recently which had a very good mix of difficult targets,so difficult targets do not phase me at all. The point I am making is shooters no matter what level want to be challenged and entertained, we all want to go home happy. Happy shooters are good for business unhappy ones are not. I shot a competition at Dartford today and although for different reasons I didn't shoot brilliantly and ended on 72 I thoroughly enjoyed it, very well laid out with cracking targets, from 60yrd loopers to the lowest fastest driven bird Ive ever seen. Brilliant. I shot 100 skeet before so wasn't as focused and fresh as I could have been. I am shooting a straw bale shoot tomorrow and Im looking forward to just enjoying pulling the trigger without the nerves and self inflicted pressure of a regd shoot. 

big paul said:

James I can handle a difficult shoot no problem, shoots are set to a certain standard as you should be aware so as not to make a mockery of the classification system, your comments aimed at me will simply roll off my broad shoulders, as you weren't actually there I see little point in you commenting on the shoot, as you weren't there to experience a painful 5+ hours to shoot 100 targets. If you expressed frustration at a shoot in Scotland, I would feel for you and probably just say "give them time, I'm sure they will get there in the end" I wouldn't be digging at you, accusing you of bruised ego.I am fully aware of how the cpsa classification works and know the odd low score gets dropped. I personally wouldn't be commenting on a shoot up your neck of the woods as not being there how can I form an educated opinion of that particular event when not in possession of all the facts. As far as classification,I am B but have been shooting well aside from nerves, shooting low to middle 80's regularly at different grounds including shooting for my county in sporting which for a B shooter

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Paul, the point I'm making is the winning class scores say the 'difficulty' of the shoot wasn't "making a mockery of the classification system", the winning class scores were exactly where they should be!?!? Anyone can see that whether they were there or not!!!

As for the rest, I agreed with you...for the record i feel your pain re the 5+ hour shoot. Never said otherwise!!!

Part of your first post screams 'bruised ego', nobody likes there ego bruised, especially me...get over it, it happens.

Your obviously a shrink as you seem confident you know what Im thinking and experiencing better than I do. Amazing.